How Far with a 7mm Rem Mag?-Elk Hunting

[memtb]

So you said energy is useless but then explained in the above that it's not....
Your explanation of mass and speed is just clouding the point I'm making. Energy is not useless

If I may interject. Energy is definitely a byproduct of speed…..however, energy is not required to kill an animal. Tissue damage and hemorrhage kills the animal…..neither require significant energy.

A razor to the throat kills very reliably…..but offers minimal energy transmitted to the throat! memtb

 

[Dean2]

So you said energy is useless but then explained in the above that it's not....
Your explanation of mass and speed is just clouding the point I'm making. Energy is not useless

To be clear I said energy is "not a prime determiner of killing power". I think I have more than adequately demonstrated that. If energy was a prime driver, and "More" energy is always better, why isn't everyone hunting with a 458 Lott or a 460 Weatherby. Both produce FAR more energy than any typical long distance cartridge in use. The reason is simple, the trajectory, not to mention recoil, is not amenable to long distance use, despite having more than sufficient energy.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I haven't hunted elk yet so I'm far from an expert, but I can tell that what you're asking is vary vague because it will be far more shooter and ammo/bullet dependent than cartridge.

Lots of people have reported excellent results as far 1000 yards and beyond with it.

You should take your 6.5 Creedmoor out to a 1000 yard range several times until you've got 1000 rounds or close to it at various distances and figure out what your limitations are as a shooter and what your comfortable with as far as accurate first round hits.

Then take what you've learned from long range shooting and mentally masturbate about your wants and needs.

 

[southpa]

@Dean2 I'm bringing this up because you mentioned something about archery. Im curious to see if you've ever shot a 460 grain arrow with a pewny 125 grain, replaceable blade INTO the shoulder of an animal with a 55 pound bow? Next I'm curious to know if you've shot a 650 grain arrow with a 175 grain single bevel and 24% FOC from an 85 pound bow THROUGH BOTH front shoulders of an animal? If you have you'd agree energy is important. If you haven't than I can see how you'd argue that it's not.

 

[Browninglover1]

We used two 7mm cartridges to kill spike elk back to back at 965 (incorrectly says 970 in the video) and 1125. The closer elk was shot with a 180 ELDM out of a SAUM and the further was with a 195 Berger and a 7mm Rem Mag. That same same was used later to kill a cow at 1040.

 

[buzby]

The minimum velocity for expansion from the manufacturer of the bullet you choose will give you your technical distance limit. It's different from bullet to bullet, so you need to know what it is for the specific one you are using.

You will have to use a chrono and a ballistic calc to determine at what distance the bullet will drop below this speed.

No bullet manufacture will give you any energy numbers for their bullets. It's just not relevant despite what numbers people feel they like. It is not a quantifiable measurement. Bullet performance at a given speed is quantifiable, and that's what the manufactures use.

Subjectively, your marksmanship in field positions, and ability to judge wind will be your limiting factor for distance.

 

[memtb]

@Dean2 I'm bringing this up because you mentioned something about archery. Im curious to see if you've ever shot a 460 grain arrow with a pewny 125 grain, replaceable blade INTO the shoulder of an animal with a 55 pound bow? Next I'm curious to know if you've shot a 650 grain arrow with a 175 grain single bevel and 24% FOC from an 85 pound bow THROUGH BOTH front shoulders of an animal? If you have you'd agree energy is important. If you haven't than I can see how you'd argue that it's not.

Now, if I understand some of the basics of physics….now we're talking about momentum! Similar but not identical to energy!

Here is a rather lengthy, but very informative write-up about energy and such! memtb

Terminal Ballistics

 

[southpa]

Now we call it momentum hahaha. Which is all energy in the end. Regardless of how you cloak it. It takes energy to do any of this work. I like a certain amount of it. That's all

 

[redneckbmxer24]

My brain would probably be less tired at the end of the day if I could just think simple enough to stick to the old fudd lore beliefs and not put thought into how things actually work and research the years of science driven R&D backed up by field results using modern bullets.

Honestly the only valid argument I can see these days is using a modern high BC bullet that's meant to carry as much down range velocity as possible and impact and break up causing massive internal trauma from shrapnel going everywhere like a little grenade going off inside or using a solid bullet copper bullet that gives up a little range due to lower BC and doesn't cause quite as much internal trauma but will punch through almost anything and exit the majority of the time without leaving a lot of shrapnel in the meat or causing as much meat damage.

 

[memtb]

Now we call it momentum hahaha. Which is all energy in the end. Regardless of how you cloak it

We have been mislead by the cartridge manufacturers longer than most of us have been on earth. It was an easy way to promote a product, with little actual/functional foundation!

Try read the info I offered… you "may" find it enlightening! The Dark Ages lasted for many years because people resisted learning/knowledge! memtb

 

[southpa]

We have been mislead by the cartridge manufacturers longer than most of us have been on earth. It was an easy way to promote a product, with little actual/functional foundation!

Try read the info I offered… you "may" find it enlightening! The Dark Ages lasted for many years because people resisted learning/knowledge! memtb

I appreciate the concern. This is how I feel about the PRC line hahahahah.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I appreciate the concern. This is how I feel about the PRC line hahahahah.

I kept my head stuck in the sand too and kept running 243's and 260's for long range competition based on feelings. Guess what? I found out just how much nicer those more modern cartridges are to use... how much more accurate they tend to be, how much easier they are to load for, and how much less finicky they tend to be as a barrel wears. I only regret not getting on board sooner. The PRC's are doing the same thing for magnum rounds and are more cartridges engineered from a science driven approach instead of what 50+ year old cartridge can we neck down to try to make this work.

Hornady is advancing shooting instead of just sticking to old stuff because it's what their dad and their dad's dad used because uncle Bob said it was good.

 

[southpa]

I kept my head stuck in the sand too and kept running 243's and 260's for long range competition based on feelings. Guess what? I found out just how much nicer those more modern cartridges are to use... how much more accurate they tend to be, how much easier they are to load for, and how much less finicky they tend to be as a barrel wears. I only regret not getting on board sooner. The PRC's are doing the same thing for magnum rounds and are more cartridges engineered from a science driven approach instead of what 50+ year old cartridge can we neck down to try to make this work.

Hornady is advancing shooting instead of just sticking to old stuff because it's what their dad and their dad's dad used because uncle Bob said it was good.

This is a different debate for a different thread hahah. But I'll say I don't agree with Hornady advancing much.

 

[Lee7588]

So you said energy is useless but then explained in the above that it's not....
Your explanation of mass and speed is just clouding the point I'm making. Energy is not useless

I agree and like I told him without energy the projectile will just stop when it hits the target