How do you explain….custom rifles?

[LRNut]

I have a lot of rifles; my litmus test for a long range gun is 2.5" groups at 500 yards. All but one of my customs can do that, although one in particular is a bit fussy about seating depth. I do have a 300 RUM 700 Sendero that was fitted with a brake and bedded by a LR smith; it passes that test. I have a Browning X Bolt in .308 that often shows it can do it, but not consistently. The only factory gun I have ever bought that could do it out of the box is my Savage Lapua; I shot twice with it yesterday to check the 500 yard zero and both shots hit my 2.5" aiming square. Granted, it is only 2 shots, but it just stacks them.

 

[skipglo]

It all depends on what you are using the rifle for. I build custom rifles for all types of customers, for some its a dream gun, for some a custom hunt, and most want an extremely reliable 1000+ yard rifle. I also probably tell 50% of my customers for what they are wanting to do, a factory savage rifle will make a 5 inch group at 300 yards 90% of the time. I try to be honest with people. Most hunters will rarely take more than a 300 yard shot, I get calls from all over the country and I always ask what's your furthest shot and without fail, it's under 300 yards. Now, I realize am speaking on a long range forum, but for most 300 is long range......why don't most people feel comfortable going beyond? Because they don't have the equipment they are confident in to go futher and to practice futher, thats when I come in with custom rifle. Everyone has goals with a rifle and OPINIONS, I do my best to sort out the facts.

Well done!!

 

[StanleyActual]

For me, I think it's a combination factors.

I think it gives a bit of peace of mind knowing exactly how that rifle was built, by whom it was built and the what parts used, generally it's pretty exciting / enjoyable ordering parts and having them show up. It's like Christmas everyday.

A lot of it is creature comforts. Having a rifle built exactly the way you want it, and having max adjustability in the areas you want it. Also, time. These newer aftermarket actions built with such close tolerances that you no longer have to send your rifle off for sometimes months on end when it's time for a barre swap. Now you can order Prefits for your rifle in the material, contour, rifling and caliber you want. To me thathuge.

my daughters a lefty, so I didn't want to have to build her multiple rifles depending on what she wanted to shoot, so I built her rifle on a Bighorn Origin SA and then got her all the bolt heads for $125-$150 each (compared to $400+ for a replacement bolt) . Now she can shoot .223 to train, and anything up to a short mag depending on what she's hunting with nothin more than a barrel and bolt head swap. Right now she has 16.5" 6.5CM, 22" 6.5PRC, and a 22" 7SS barrels for her rifle.

That last factor is one of the biggest for me. What's your time worth. I hated sending my rifle off for weeks or months on end for a barrel swap. IMO, the cost is worth it to be able to order already chambered / threaded barrels and install them yourself. Keep in mind, I'm some cases (bighorn origin @ $800) you're gonna spend the same money tto get a Rem 700 and then true it up and dialed it in as you would for that custom action and you still won't have pre-fit barrels available for it or the ability to run different calibers without using full replacement bolts.

atleast that's how I try to justify it….

 

[AZHTR]

My summary - I wanted to be proficient at 500 yards. Fortunately I can afford a custom rifle, but I like the learning process.
(Probably not in this order)
1) Started with a basic Rem 700 7MAG. Shot it!
2) HS Precision stock - bedded everything. Shot it!
3) Jewel Trigger. Shot it!
4) lapped scope rings and action. Shot it!
——— shot better than MOA, but I wasn't always consistent.
5) Bartlein barrel — this is where everything changed
6) A&D 120 scale
7) ladder charts and seating depth changes
8) understanding reloading variables
——- on good calm days I now consistently shoot sub MOA at a 1,000 yards

It's a learning process education for me that I wouldn't have had if I would have bought a custom. I also have a WIN model 70 that I did the same work on. I could have saved myself a lot of time and money just buying the custom, but I wouldn't have understood the "WHY or HOW"

Just my scenario!

 

[StanleyActual]

My summary - I wanted to be proficient at 500 yards. Fortunately I can afford a custom rifle, but I like the learning process.
(Probably not in this order)
1) Started with a basic Rem 700 7MAG. Shot it!
2) HS Precision stock - bedded everything. Shot it!
3) Jewel Trigger. Shot it!
4) lapped scope rings and action. Shot it!
——— shot better than MOA, but I wasn't always consistent.
5) Bartlein barrel — this is where everything changed
6) A&D 120 scale
7) ladder charts and seating depth changes
8) understanding reloading variables
——- on good calm days I now consistently shoot sub MOA at a 1,000 yards

It's a learning process education for me that I wouldn't have had if I would have bought a custom. I also have a WIN model 70 that I did the same work on. I could have saved myself a lot of time and money just buying the custom, but I wouldn't have understood the "WHY or HOW"

Just my scenario!

Yup. Same process here. Bought. $400 Rem 700 BDLVS in a .308 and slapped a SS10x42 on it. Shot the heck out of it. Eventually put a premium barrel on it, then a trigger, then a stock. Ran it like that for years, then eventually ended up selling it to put money towards my first custom action and pieced that one together.

 

[longrangebob]

I have a safe full of half minute factory rifles that I paid between $500 and $2k for (roughly). If I want a better stock or trigger, or whatever, I can buy the same equipment used in almost all custom rifles and have it delivered to my front door for a nominal fee. I'm not attacking the idea of a custom rifle, and in years past, it was the only way to get an accuracy guarantee, but now you can reliably buy $500 factory rifles that shoot as well as high end customs, so it seems less relevant than before. If someone wants to spend the money to buy a rifle that nobody else has, I get it, but I don't think it will ever be for me. I have dozens of rifles, too many, and ridiculous redundancy in function in many cases, and perhaps I'd be better off with... let's say 3 really, really nice customs that would fill all of my cartridge desires, (maybe something like 6creed, 300 wsm, and 340bee), but I'd rather have more options. Does it make sense to have dozens of thousand dollar rifle scopes instead of having 3 S&B or March scopes? I don't know. But when I start thinking about dropping $5k on a rifle, my hands start to shake, but a bite at a time, I don't bat an eye at spending $5k in a month on guns or gun parts when I'm so inclined.

340bee??? Waz Dat?? A rename 4 .340 WbyMag.?? If 340 is its parent - Wud love the Particulars LRB

 

[LRNut]

For me, I think it's a combination factors.

I think it gives a bit of peace of mind knowing exactly how that rifle was built, by whom it was built and the what parts used, generally it's pretty exciting / enjoyable ordering parts and having them show up. It's like Christmas everyday.

A lot of it is creature comforts. Having a rifle built exactly the way you want it, and having max adjustability in the areas you want it. Also, time. These newer aftermarket actions built with such close tolerances that you no longer have to send your rifle off for sometimes months on end when it's time for a barre swap. Now you can order Prefits for your rifle in the material, contour, rifling and caliber you want. To me thathuge.

my daughters a lefty, so I didn't want to have to build her multiple rifles depending on what she wanted to shoot, so I built her rifle on a Bighorn Origin SA and then got her all the bolt heads for $125-$150 each (compared to $400+ for a replacement bolt) . Now she can shoot .223 to train, and anything up to a short mag depending on what she's hunting with nothin more than a barrel and bolt head swap. Right now she has 16.5" 6.5CM, 22" 6.5PRC, and a 22" 7SS barrels for her rifle.

That last factor is one of the biggest for me. What's your time worth. I hated sending my rifle off for weeks or months on end for a barrel swap. IMO, the cost is worth it to be able to order already chambered / threaded barrels and install them yourself. Keep in mind, I'm some cases (bighorn origin @ $800) you're gonna spend the same money tto get a Rem 700 and then true it up and dialed it in as you would for that custom action and you still won't have pre-fit barrels available for it or the ability to run different calibers without using full replacement bolts.

atleast that's how I try to justify it….

I am not a big fan of pre-chambered barrels. I use one guy who makes his own barrels; he has built two 28Ns for me and both shoot EXACTLY the same load sub 1/2 MOA at 500 because he uses the same reamer, they have identical throats, etc.

 

[StanleyActual]

I am not a big fan of pre-chambered barrels. I use one guy who makes his own barrels; he has built two 28Ns for me and both shoot EXACTLY the same load sub 1/2 MOA at 500 because he uses the same reamer, they have identical throats, etc.

that's not to say you can't have the same smith chamber your pre-fits. It just means he doesn't need to action there to do it. I had Altus do my 6.5CM and my daughters 6.5CM. First time she ever fired that rifle she shot a 100 yd group that measure .268" with factory 140gn ELDM's.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

340bee??? Waz Dat?? A rename 4 .340 WbyMag.?? If 340 is its parent - Wud love the Particulars LRB

I just used shorthand for "Weatherby".

I use it conversationally for Weatherby cartridges

 

[homewoodboy]

I've never owned a full custom built rifle. Some people want to buy the newest model truck as soon as it comes out, and I've never done that either. It's all in what a person wants. I just get more satisfaction out of buying a factory rifle as good as the shoot nowadays and tweaking it to fit/shoot just like I want it too. Sometimes I wind up replacing everything but the action, and sometimes I just put a cheek riser on it. I'm a tightwad too, so that's another reason.

 

[WeekendWarrior]

I dont "explain" them, I just buy them. "Explaining" amounts buying my wife a really nice dinner and finishing a few things on my honey-do list after she checks the credit card. In that sense, my last custom rifle was explained with new garden beds with metal edging, finishing some details on the hardwood floors in my kitchen, and a nice steak dinner.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I dont "explain" them, I just buy them. "Explaining" amounts buying my wife a really nice dinner and finishing a few things on my honey-do list after she checks the credit card. In that sense, my last custom rifle was explained with new garden beds with metal edging, finishing some details on the hardwood floors in my kitchen, and a nice steak dinner.

That was nice of her.

What kind of steak did she buy you?

 

[DJ Fergus]

This is a challenge for me. Factory rifles with load development can shoot quite well. 1 moa is quite common. 1/2 moa or close seems like it is becoming more common.

Factory stocks are becoming crappier and better at the top end. This is a pretty good reason to go full custom.

Otherwise, I feel like rational people think I'm a bit bonkers. I talk about things like case to die to chamber fit being nearly perfect, stock dimensions being a near perfect fit, optics clear enough to really see at lower magnifications.

All that said, I shot my friends Savage package gun in 6.5 creedmor and my only real complaints were:
-stock was not a good fit
-scope was forward and couldn't move
-windage turret moved 0.75 moa with 1 click(1/4 moa turret)
-glass was just ok/usable

Our results were pretty good. Quick sight in at 100, 1.4moa 200yd group, 300 yd 2 moa steel hits. Not bad.

Then we talk about my new rifle. Everything is better, but for what? How do I explain the value of it? Not to justify. I want it, I earned it, it solves my issues from previous experience. I get that, but why are custom rifles worth 5-10 times to price? Or are they a bad deal? The value is definitely low when sold as used.

I ask, really just to generate interest from people who don't connect with the idea immediately.

That really is a thought provoking paragraph. I've been there and done it many times all the way from starting out with a $250 bolt action over 20 years ago and on to customs & semi customs in multiple cartridges & hand loading for all of those. All this along with handloading for buddies bolt actions also...... Knowing what I know now, I don't know if there is a practical or correct answer to your paragraph. I would have given you a quick answer 15 years ago, 10 years ago I would have also given you a quick answer but it would have been a different answer than that of 15 years ago. I will try to answer from my perspective & experience at this point in time from all the factory & customs I've hand loaded for & shot:

I can make a factory rifle shoot most of the time, some are more finicky than others. Customs & semi customs are typically less finicky but I've had those be finicky also. Nowadays, it's likely to get a factory 6.5 cm or prc to shoot half moa with the right factory ammo but not guaranteed, not all will do 1/2 moa. After a fellow goes through a pile of factory rifles he starts to find things that he prefers along with things he dislikes, hence he will have one built or he will put it together himself exactly like he wants it. For me, it's not so much the fact that I can't get an economy factory rifle or even an expensive factory rifle to shoot accurately but it's a question of: is it exactly like what I want it to be?
Such as, is it the barrel length, contour, over all weight, and everything else that I want?
I mostly do semi customs for myself. I can do those cheaper than an expensive factory rifle and still get everything about it exactly like I want it to be.

 

[Finsta]

My vote is custom for competition and over 600 yards. But even that's not written in stone for me if you have an OTC factory or deluxe that hits what you aim at further out. Although I mostly bought Deluxe for reliable performance, I have bought a couple of $1000-$1200 OTC factories that shoot great with the right ammo. I got a REM 700 LSS that shoots sub MOA with some ammo. Haven't done a thing with it. And that's with a 3lb. trigger pull. I keep every hunting rifle at 3lbs. minimum. It's safer and it guarantees I know how to shoot good with heavy triggers. Besides, most of my practice is still offhand with every rifle I own out to 200 yards. I likely would only shoot on a hunt no more than 100 unsupported. But hitting a 1 foot target (200 yards)offhand every time, while practicing,is a confidence builder. Any other shots supported are just gravy. I got a bit off topic, but I promote offhand practice and heavier triggers when I get a chance. I've seen too many guys have accidents setting light trigger pulls while hunting. I don't like seeing wounded game that's not harvested. And I rarely see anyone that shoot offhand; worse the few that do can't consistently hit a pie plate at a 100 yards.