Hornady 250 SST ML Bullet Disappointed

[Rosebud]

I've killed quite a few deer with them, but like any blackpowder rifle we're just knocking big holes through them. No great shock value there. They run 50 To100'yards and pile up, unless you hit spine. Used to hunt military reservation where you could hunt with either shotgun or black powder rifle. I chose muzzle loader until I got a rifled barrel for the 870 pump. Fun hunts.

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

I used to use Hornady 45 caliber SST/shockwaves in my TC Omega .45 ML. I had nothing but problems with them. They wouldn't expand at all on broadside deer at 100yds or less. 40 caliber hole in 40 caliber hole out. Which led to extremely long and strenuous tracking efforts. So I started shooting them in the shoulder and it would cripple the deer. After having to finish two deer by hand with a knife, I had enough and moved to Barnes expanders. The shoulder shots resulted in bullet failure. The tip, core and outside cup were sitting on the other side of the shoulder blade. These bullets are 40 caliber pistol bullets, not meant for 2400fps rifles. The bullets are trash. Barnes punched a big double lung exit hole and the deer was DRT!!

 

[Akredneck]

I used to shoot 295gr SST's for moose, I recoverd every bullet. SST bullets are designed to deliver all the energy in animal, I shot a moose at 6 yards behind the shoulder 100gr charge at 20 below found bullet in opposite side in hide, hitting only 1 rib. Not bashing the bullet, dropped 4 moose with them. I talked to one of the bullet engineers and he did some explaining. He told me based on what I told him , bullets performed flawlessly. He recommended the hornady monoflex bullets. The accuracy is on point, I try and chose my shots always behind the shoulder, whether deer, bear, moose or caribou. If I am wanting to put something on the ground regardless, I would use Buffalo loads 350gr hard cast bullets punches through both shoulders of moose at 30 yards, my buddies use that with their smoke Poles.

 

[2Old2Care]

Called Hornady and asked what was the minimum fps needed for expansion. The representative stated it was 1800 fps. I let him know the that at speed many guns would have a 50 yard or less range. 100 grains by volume of BH209 produces 1943 fps which drops to 1800 in less than 40 yards. Had him check with another representative and they he stuck by 1800 fps. They did know this was a muzzle loader bullet.

Barnes stated 1100 fps for the T-EZ Spitfire 250 grains.

Disappointed in the lack of knowledge by Hornady rep. I guess all the knowledgeable guys are making 7mm PRC Brass.

What is the real speed needed?

I have used the 250gr Hornady SST and TC Shockwaves over several years on out-of-state hunts for elk. My first kill was on an old 387" bull elk at under 20 yards, with the standard Shockwave (would have preferred the bonded ones that were back in my truck). The bullet exited after a double lung shot that put the bull down immediately, with no follow-up required. He weighed 570 pounds fully dressed, with head and lower legs removed. The attached picture is of a 250 SST from an elk that I shot off-hand at 178 yards in AZ in 2019. He was a small raghorn 6X6, taken late on the last day of season, after I blew a stalk on a big 7X7 that morning in crunchy snow. Both bulls were killed with my TC Encore, loaded with 120gr of Hodgdon's Tripple 7 and Remington muzzleloader 209 primers. I am confident that the Shockwave and SST are the same bullet, just different colored tips. I've also killed elk with TC Maxiballs, Powerbelt Aero Tip, and 350gr Federal Trophy Lead in .54 and .50 cal rifles here in Colorado. They all worked, however I can't in good conscious recommend the Powerbelt's for elk, though I have friends that have done very well with them. Those I recovered from game as small as pronghorn only managed to get into the lungs and looked much like a 25 cent coin. If your rifle/load combination is accurate, I would not hesitate to use it for anything in North America, including Alaskan interior grizzly, as long as you can properly execute the shot, and considering the diameter of the bullets, I don't worry about what speed they will open, just how well they hold together and penetrate. Hunt on!

 

[Smokepoles]

For me on white tails the 250ml pencil through and make for really hard tracking if hunting in thick terrain. I tried the 275 parker extreme this year, acted like a ballistic tip should, shrapnelled and dropped buck on the spot. Recovered maybe 30% of it in the off side scapula/hide and shards everywhere. No exit but luckily no tracking needed in that case. I believe I'm going to try the swift a-frames next if they shoot well. I'd like a muzzy bullet that performs like an accubond or partition personally. I generally hunt thicker areas and large exit wounds sure make finding them easier.
My brother uses powerbelts, I forget which model but saw one deer with a huge exit but then had one pencil through a buck last week.

 

[Catskills]

I've had great luck with the Barnes 250s out to 211yds with great expansion and penetration. I did see a failure to expand at 280 or so. These were shot with 3 50g pellets which chronographed 2230fps.

 

[AL1]

Does Thor still make those cupped base 50cal Barnes??

I had ordered a sample sizer pack years ago for a Encore, sold the barrel before even trying them.

 

[cajun]

Back in the day before dedicated muzzle loader bullets were a thing we shot the 240 44 xtp's with generally good success however they wound sometimes not exit which made recocery an issue some times. Switched to the barnes and found they didnt due as much terminal damage but would exit and we would have a blood trail. Deer might run a little farther but we could find them.

 

[meatyrem]

I first used the xtp 44's as well in my tc. Shot a doe at six yards and never penetrated past the shoulder. Lost it.

The hornady sst ml and the shockwaves ARE the same bullet just different names. The blue tip are the bonded and the red/yellow tops are the standards.


I've used the Barnes 250 tmz for many years now and have always performed well. I'm gonna stick with them for now in my smoke stick. And likely to switch from sst/shockwaves in my 460 smith rifle. I need something that holds together better with these velocities. ML speeds would be fine.

Was thinking of using the swift a frames from my 460 S&W pistol as some close shots tend to fragment too much with the Speer gold dots

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

I first used the xtp 44's as well in my tc. Shot a doe at six yards and never penetrated past the shoulder. Lost it.

The hornady sst ml and the shockwaves ARE the same bullet just different names. The blue tip are the bonded and the red/yellow tops are the standards.


I've used the Barnes 250 tmz for many years now and have always performed well. I'm gonna stick with them for now in my smoke stick. And likely to switch from sst/shockwaves in my 460 smith rifle. I need something that holds together better with these velocities. ML speeds would be fine.

Was thinking of using the swift a frames from my 460 S&W pistol as some close shots tend to fragment too much with the Speer gold dots

I have a TC Encore with the 460 S&W Mag barrel. I used the Buffalo Bore Barnes tipped bullets and it's like Thor's Hammer on whitetails. It was like a 3" exit and blew blood out like a fire hose. Upon field dressing the deer, the bullet ripped the the top of the heart off. Adrenaline allowed the deer to run 20 yards and then it nose dived into a pile.

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

I used ML exclusively before Indiana allowed Hi-Po rifles. I have now succumbed to the ease of modern rifles. I still use what I have learned from my days of being a smoke pole sniper. One thing was to wait patiently for the best shot placement opportunity. You only get one shot and can't see shat until the smoke cloud drifts away. The other thing is using copper solid bullets. I switched from Hornady SST to Barnes ML Expander EZ bullets. Just like I switched from soft point bullets to Federal Trophy Copper bullets for my 30-06. The Trophy Copper bullets cause unbelievably massive exit wounds and instant DRT results on the 5 whitetail deer shot from 25yds to 150yds. Sadly Federal discontinued the Trophy Copper line...I guess after I run out of my second box, I'll have to handload Barnes. Any ideas if the Trophy Copper bullets are exclusive to Federal or are they manufactured by a different company? Copper bullet with a dark green ballistic tip.

 

[AL1]

Jack Carter started Trophy Bonded Bullets eons ago. He eventually sold out to Federal about the same time Remmy bought out Barnes and Barnes Federal marriage dissolved..............if I recall that right.

Federal has redesigned the line ever since.

 

[scdogman]

Spoke to a different Hornady rep. This one stated 1400 fps was the minimum. With 2022 fps mv at 600 ft altitude, that's some around 180 yards for me.

Barnes stated 1100 fps for the 250 T-EZ. Using the same muzzle velocity, the would be 300 yards effective range.

Thanks for the help.

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

I used to use Hornady 45 caliber SST/shockwaves in my TC Omega .45 ML. I had nothing but problems with them. They wouldn't expand at all on broadside deer at 100yds or less. 40 caliber hole in 40 caliber hole out. Which led to extremely long and strenuous tracking efforts. So I started shooting them in the shoulder and it would cripple the deer. After having to finish two deer by hand with a knife, I had enough and moved to Barnes expanders. The shoulder shots resulted in bullet failure. The tip, core and outside cup were sitting on the other side of the shoulder blade. These bullets are 40 caliber pistol bullets, not meant for 2400fps rifles. The bullets are trash. Barnes punched a big double lung exit hole and the deer was DRT!!

BTW this was my experience using a 45 cal TC omega with 45 cal Hornady SST 195 grain sabot(40cal projectile) using three 50 grain triple7 pellets. That load chronograph at 2394fps, I rounded up to 2400. A guy at the range let me use his chronograph once and only once. When the smoke cloud, firey junk and sabot hit his chronograph trap, he wasn't very happy...lol