Hodgen powder issues
- Thread starter Shawn Carlock
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
remingtonman_25_06
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I'll have to rechrono my load as well because I think this new batch of H1000 is definately hotter then the last. My primers aren't looking to good off this last batch. Not pierced, but I'd say there pretty dang close.
I am using the standard 92g H1000,300g SMK,CCI250, 3.780", 28" bbl giving me 2840fps (original load work up)
This new can is lot # 1041807-4466
I am using the standard 92g H1000,300g SMK,CCI250, 3.780", 28" bbl giving me 2840fps (original load work up)
This new can is lot # 1041807-4466
Down Under Hunter
Well-Known Member
I left a message with the head of developement at ADI this afternoon. I'm sure he will call in the morning.
It would amaze me if they had done anything to the powder on purpose without clearly stating it had been changed. In these days of litigation I cant see how any sain company would take that risk.
I shoot the 92 grn std load in my gun too but have not noticed sticky bolts or primer flattening.
It may just be a bad batch ?
Maybe if multiple guys are getting sticky bolts and increased chrono readings then you would have to think something is up !
Hopefully I will have some sort of answer from the manufacturer tomorrow. They are about 4 hours drive from me.
Cheers all.
DUH
It would amaze me if they had done anything to the powder on purpose without clearly stating it had been changed. In these days of litigation I cant see how any sain company would take that risk.
I shoot the 92 grn std load in my gun too but have not noticed sticky bolts or primer flattening.
It may just be a bad batch ?
Maybe if multiple guys are getting sticky bolts and increased chrono readings then you would have to think something is up !
Hopefully I will have some sort of answer from the manufacturer tomorrow. They are about 4 hours drive from me.
Cheers all.
DUH
Down Under Hunter
Well-Known Member
Spoke to ADI this morning and they were very interested. They asked for the link to the article and were pleased to see some powder lot numbers to cross reference. Also pleasing to know that they know about LRHF as well !
Ken is going to email me a response shortly that I will then post.
Stay tuned and dont throw your powder just yet !
DUH
Ken is going to email me a response shortly that I will then post.
Stay tuned and dont throw your powder just yet !
DUH
m249
Well-Known Member
Down under keep us posted on what they have to say, very interested in what happened if they tweaked it or if they just made a manufacturing error.
Good to hear that they are glad to learn about this site who knows maybe they'll start using us for research for new loads and better performing products.
Good to hear that they are glad to learn about this site who knows maybe they'll start using us for research for new loads and better performing products.
358sta
Well-Known Member
I wonder if they maybe tweaked H-1000 to burn slightly faster as I found the then new RETUMBO (09-12-03) to only be 1 gr. slower than my old lots (12-19-96) of H-1000. Didn't see any reason to switch over to RETUMBO since its burn rate was so close to H-1000 but it appears that may have changed if H-1000 continues to be faster. Based on lot numbers given so far, it looks like the change occurred around 04-18-07 or earlier.
Kevin
Kevin
Shawn Carlock
Sponsor
I have seen the same thing happen with H50 BMG in the Allem Mags over the last couple of years. I was running 144 gr in mine and now they are down to 136-138 gr to get the same velocity and relative pressure.
m249
Well-Known Member
You would think that if they were tweaking powders so they had a wider gap between powders they would put something up on their website or send out something to dealers to notify us that they were changing the burn rates.
I find it hard to believe that they would just change its rates and not even give a warning that its rate has been changed.
I find it hard to believe that they would just change its rates and not even give a warning that its rate has been changed.
brianwinzor
Well-Known Member
About 4 years ago, I had similar issues with AR2217/H1000.
Since about 1998, I had being using a supply of H1000, which bizarrely was made by ADI in Oz, and imported by a Canberra gunshop from Hodgdon in the US. I believe the Oz equivalent AR2217 was not released by ADI in Oz until sometime well after 1998.
I had being using a load of 63.0 grains H1000 in my 25/06AI for about 7 years, and with the Nosler 115 grain BT it routinely delivered sub 0.5 moa at velocities ranging from 3240 to 3275.(depending on temp).
In April 2005, I purchased a 500 gram tin of AR 2217, as I was down to my last 20 shots loaded with my field load of 63.0/H1000. I was short on cases, so rather than work up from about 58 grains/2217, I decided to take the risk of loading 3 cases with 63.0 AR 2217. My first shot produced smoke from the bolt, 3482 fps on the chrono, and a blown primer once I hammered open the bolt with a rubber mallet.
I then fired 4 field loads (63.0/H1000) and recorded an average velocity of 3271 fps, and also fired loads of 61.0 and 62.0of Re 25. I have cut and pasted my chrono results below: Load: Winchester Cases, Remington 9 ½ M Primer, Nosler 115 grain Ballistic Tip - loaded length 3.235 Seating Depth .010 - .015 inches from lands.
63.0 Grains ADI AR 2217
1 3482 Blown Primer, Way over Maximum
2 Not Fired "
3 Not Fired " "
63.0 Grains Hodgdon 1000
1 3271 Near Max
2 3276 "
3 3266 "
4 3271 "
Ave 3271
Reloader 25
61.0 Grains
Shot FPS Remarks
1 3198 Pressure Near Max
2 3208 "
3 3248 "
Ave 3218
ES 50
62.0 grains Re 25
1 3293 Pressure Max
2 3293 "
3 3292 "
Ave 3293
Subsequent tests showed this lot of ADI AR 2217 is probably about 3 grains faster burning than the lot of Hodgdon 1000.
This represents about a 5% variation, which is probably within ADI's lot to lot variation tolerance.
Hope that the above is of interest. Brian
Since about 1998, I had being using a supply of H1000, which bizarrely was made by ADI in Oz, and imported by a Canberra gunshop from Hodgdon in the US. I believe the Oz equivalent AR2217 was not released by ADI in Oz until sometime well after 1998.
I had being using a load of 63.0 grains H1000 in my 25/06AI for about 7 years, and with the Nosler 115 grain BT it routinely delivered sub 0.5 moa at velocities ranging from 3240 to 3275.(depending on temp).
In April 2005, I purchased a 500 gram tin of AR 2217, as I was down to my last 20 shots loaded with my field load of 63.0/H1000. I was short on cases, so rather than work up from about 58 grains/2217, I decided to take the risk of loading 3 cases with 63.0 AR 2217. My first shot produced smoke from the bolt, 3482 fps on the chrono, and a blown primer once I hammered open the bolt with a rubber mallet.
I then fired 4 field loads (63.0/H1000) and recorded an average velocity of 3271 fps, and also fired loads of 61.0 and 62.0of Re 25. I have cut and pasted my chrono results below: Load: Winchester Cases, Remington 9 ½ M Primer, Nosler 115 grain Ballistic Tip - loaded length 3.235 Seating Depth .010 - .015 inches from lands.
63.0 Grains ADI AR 2217
1 3482 Blown Primer, Way over Maximum
2 Not Fired "
3 Not Fired " "
63.0 Grains Hodgdon 1000
1 3271 Near Max
2 3276 "
3 3266 "
4 3271 "
Ave 3271
Reloader 25
61.0 Grains
Shot FPS Remarks
1 3198 Pressure Near Max
2 3208 "
3 3248 "
Ave 3218
ES 50
62.0 grains Re 25
1 3293 Pressure Max
2 3293 "
3 3292 "
Ave 3293
Subsequent tests showed this lot of ADI AR 2217 is probably about 3 grains faster burning than the lot of Hodgdon 1000.
This represents about a 5% variation, which is probably within ADI's lot to lot variation tolerance.
Hope that the above is of interest. Brian
Last edited:
Down Under Hunter
Well-Known Member
I spoke again today to one of the developement team at THALES who produce the ADI 2217 or H1000.
He said he would definitely email his response to my questions today. Unofrtunately, it still was not forthcoming which surprises me a little..
Maybe there is a company policy not to put in print such details ?
There has been no concious effort to lift the burn rate with the powder. That is one thing for sure. However he did notice that some of the more recent batches have had slightly more elevated readings but well within their tolerances. He did think however that there was the possibilty that conditions whilst the powder is getting from AUS to US shores could play some small part ? Dont ask me exactly but he talked about moisture ?
I personally have been shooting ADI 2217 for the last 20 months an so far no noticable difference but I think the question may have surfaced to the importer in the US before ?
If his personal email turns up at work I will post it immediately as I told him alot of "fans " of his product were a little concerned .
Maybe he had a higher power call a halt to any explanations as he certainly was very forthcoming and clearly was a enthusiast himself. At least he knew what a 338 EDGE and 338 AM were ! Thats a good sign !
DUH
He said he would definitely email his response to my questions today. Unofrtunately, it still was not forthcoming which surprises me a little..
Maybe there is a company policy not to put in print such details ?
There has been no concious effort to lift the burn rate with the powder. That is one thing for sure. However he did notice that some of the more recent batches have had slightly more elevated readings but well within their tolerances. He did think however that there was the possibilty that conditions whilst the powder is getting from AUS to US shores could play some small part ? Dont ask me exactly but he talked about moisture ?
I personally have been shooting ADI 2217 for the last 20 months an so far no noticable difference but I think the question may have surfaced to the importer in the US before ?
If his personal email turns up at work I will post it immediately as I told him alot of "fans " of his product were a little concerned .
Maybe he had a higher power call a halt to any explanations as he certainly was very forthcoming and clearly was a enthusiast himself. At least he knew what a 338 EDGE and 338 AM were ! Thats a good sign !
DUH
AJ Peacock
Well-Known Member
DUH,
Thanks for the info. I recall reading (I think it was in Handloading for Competition by Zediker Publishing) that moisture differences from lot to lot can cause inconsistencies. In fact, he claims that having differences in humidity in your loading room can cause inconsistencies with the same powder lot !! Instead of weighing his loads, he uses a high quality volume measure (which would eliminate moisture content fluctiations).
If someone has both a new and old lot of the powder, it would be interesting to weigh out 100gr with both and then see if they occupied the same volume.
AJ
Thanks for the info. I recall reading (I think it was in Handloading for Competition by Zediker Publishing) that moisture differences from lot to lot can cause inconsistencies. In fact, he claims that having differences in humidity in your loading room can cause inconsistencies with the same powder lot !! Instead of weighing his loads, he uses a high quality volume measure (which would eliminate moisture content fluctiations).
If someone has both a new and old lot of the powder, it would be interesting to weigh out 100gr with both and then see if they occupied the same volume.
AJ
I do not think they tweaked the burn rates on purpose, nor think it is a big deal, just a pain in the rear.
I see these slight changes from lot to lot with almost all manufacturers. Some are relatively small differences, some are bigger. The burn rate for vv560 has changed enough over the last three years to pop primers in top in loads developed with older lots of powder. I have seen the same thing with reloader 22, 19, 15, H4350, IMR 4831, H50BMG.
It is a good idea to buy powder in bulk so you only have to deal with these changes occasionally. Unfortunately I have never been able to find my favorite and most used powder in anything larger than one pound jugs vv560. Worse yet it has proven to be one of the least consistant from year to year. It always works great once you tweak your load. I burn from 10 to 12 pounds of this stuff a year and it is a pain because I shoot it in so many different rifles.
I see these slight changes from lot to lot with almost all manufacturers. Some are relatively small differences, some are bigger. The burn rate for vv560 has changed enough over the last three years to pop primers in top in loads developed with older lots of powder. I have seen the same thing with reloader 22, 19, 15, H4350, IMR 4831, H50BMG.
It is a good idea to buy powder in bulk so you only have to deal with these changes occasionally. Unfortunately I have never been able to find my favorite and most used powder in anything larger than one pound jugs vv560. Worse yet it has proven to be one of the least consistant from year to year. It always works great once you tweak your load. I burn from 10 to 12 pounds of this stuff a year and it is a pain because I shoot it in so many different rifles.
TAP
Well-Known Member
Glad to know I am not the only one who noticed this. I, too, am running less powder with faster velocities. 90.5 gns is just the ticket in my Edge.
