High BC Bullet Gap

[TXAoudadKlr]

Yeah, I emailed a couple guys at Berger a month or so back about the new offerings on the drawing board, there will be a full EOL/ Elite Hunter line

I just wonder if they'll just revamp the 230 or make a whole new and heavier bullet. I also wonder if the reply the gave you will be extended to the 338's as well. In addition to how far down they go for the smaller calibers.

 

[7mmShooter]

I just wonder if they'll just revamp the 230 or make a whole new and heavier bullet. I also wonder if the reply the gave you will be extended to the 338's as well. In addition to how far down they go for the smaller calibers.

No idea, but I hope so! Personally I'd love to see a heavier 6mm

 

[RockyMtnMT]

No idea, but I hope so! Personally I'd love to see a heavier 6mm

Are you planning to re-barrel for it?

Steve

 

[7mmShooter]

Love the enthusiasm Steve, but just brainstorming for now. Have a bunch of 243 components from a rifle previously sold, but if I get another I would definitely look into it!

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Are you planning to re-barrel for it?

Steve

I'd rebarrel to a 1-9 or 1-8 if they make a 240-245gr 30cal.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'd rebarrel to a 1-9 or 1-8 if they make a 240-245gr 30cal.

8" twist would get you there if the jackets could hold up.

Steve

 

[Swamplord]

I'd suggest some of you actually ask a bullet maker why you don't see a 150+ 25 cal, or better yet go to the Corbin web site and get the gear to build your own bullets.
To get the 160 Matrix was a pile of work over a couple years, just to get a jacket was a battle. You don't just order a special length jacket for kicks and giggles to make a bullet.
There seems to be a lot of whining about the 270 getting high BC bullets, well there would be no 165 if Marshal wasn't into the 270 cal in competition and bought the equipment and do the testing and foundation work to build it. The 170 Berger took Bob Beck and Extreme Outer Limits to get behind it and I suspect swing a heavy financial bat.
Some seem to have the idea that it's no sweat taking a cup and core bullet and just sizing it down a few thou and it'll be all good, it's not easy, the smaller the bore the harder it is cause of how much you increase bearing surface length, so you end up with a heavy for cal bullet with so much bearing surface you have to launch it with a higher capacity case but the twist rate and capacity required make a jacket tearing monster that no one wants. Look at the Berger 195, I know a lot of huge 7mm fans boys who won't run it because the extra bearing surface really put the brakes on in some chamberings.

The 270 makes everyone's top 10 list in popularity and sales and often the 270 Win and WSM are in there. There is not a single quarter bore in any list other than the dodo lists, which is unfortunate but you run a business of sales, if you want to see epic quarter bore bullets generate some sales!!

This thread has a custom bullet maker even asking and offering to build the best he can and you guys turn up your nose and make zero effort, ya that's the way you get traction with manufactures Then to top it of it's fun to B***h about no bullets then when the offer comes, nope don't want it cause it suxs and we don't shoot them anymore or they burn barrels so wont' shot much, yep that should motivate some bullet makers to roll out some quarter bores!!

Maybe shoot what we have and prove it worth the effort, I have a 25x47 Lapua on the board for a med range thumper running the 130 Matrix, after testing the 130 Matrix out of our 250 AI I think it would be a great 600 and in elk and mule deer rig.
Build a 25 cal benchrest rifle and go kick some butt with it, that will also get you some traction just like the 6mm 105 and 115 which few factory rifles are able to run but their sold by the semi load to comp guys or those of use who will pull a barrel and twist up our hunting rifles.
An even better idea is build your self an epic quarter bore, get thousands of dollars worth of camera equipment, tens of thousands into tag and travel and make an awesome hunting with the quarter bore video series, that may do it also. Bottom line action gets traction with bullet makers not whining on the internet!!!

this ^^^^ ...... I agree with 1000% !!!!

Lots of crickets chirping and flies buzzing around complaining that a certain flavor of crap is missing from their diet and why isn't SOMEBODY doing something about it !

Lets go back to this very forum not too long ago, there is a thread that generated hundreds of complaints and thousands of views , all about the absolute need to have heavier and much desired higher bc 8mm bullets ! Man, they were gonna design super duper 8mm wildcats, build multiple guns and order more faster twist barrels , BUT ....... the stupid bullet makers were ruining all their lifelong plans and dreams by not doing their jobs and making these simple, easy to make magic 8mm bullets ...........

Well, I did some leg and brain work and did find a manufacturer who agreed to make all our dreams come true, I put up the $$ for minimum bullet orders to get this going , two different bullet weights were made in 8mm (.323") caliber , a 225 gr MTH with .640 bc and a 256 gr MTH with .750 bc, both bullets have conservative bc estimates and will most likely be a bit higher, once the bullets were in production and readily available in stock at anytime ............ ALL the chirping crickets and buzzing flies that had such terrible existences of daily suffering due to the lack of proper crap they so desired to feed upon ......... WENT SILENT ....... but never so much as bought a single **** bullet , much less develop those excruciatingly ultremely longishly long range wildcats and order a barrelful of barrels ........


It shows that most of these loud crickets and flies were all full of crap to begin with and were making noise just to be heard and noticed ,

Want something ? do ya ?
put up the $$$ or shut up ..... simple and effective way to get what you want ...... freakin buy it !
why should a manufacturer spend their $$$ and resources making something nobody will buy ? when they can make stuff that sells faster than they can barely keep up it .....

Business, my friends ... is not about your special needs for special crap !
that is what special orders are for and yes .... ya gotta pay if you wanna play !

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I just wonder if they'll just revamp the 230 or make a whole new and heavier bullet. I also wonder if the reply the gave you will be extended to the 338's as well. In addition to how far down they go for the smaller calibers.

Rumored 245 .30 cal and 327 (ish?) 338. I've heard 155ish 6.5 too.

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's bull that nobody will make a good heavy high-BC .257 bullet. I've been asking Berger for years, but to no avail. Maybe they'll release one this year... The 1/4-bore shooters really could use one. I'd love to have a 130-135 Hybrid. It would be even better if it would stabilize in a standard 1:10 twist, but I'm sure i'm asking too much now.

The only 2 calibers on the American market that get ignored are the .257 and 8mm (.323).

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm not sure why no one makes a good .257 bullet either for long range. The Age old Excuse of
"Well most 25-06 and other 257 bore guns have 10 twists, so it would not be popular!"

Heard that too many times, When 99.9999999999999999 of all 270 amd other 277 calibers are also 10 twists, yet Berger now sells a 170, Matrix 165's and 175's.
How many factory 6mm gunslike 243 6mm rem etc you see with 8 twists, yet they sell 105 and 115 bergers and other makes.

Bingo!

 

[FEENIX]

lightbulbI'm just happy and thankful we have choices!lightbulb

 

[TX Badger]

OK, I started this thing so I'm going to try to rein it in a little. When I said there was a gap I meant that there are higher BC bullets in .243 and .264 and that should be addressed. As long as that was being done it should be a modern VLD (+.6 BC) that would get the attention of bullet geeks like me and be able to stabilize in a barrel with a reasonable twist. (I was thinking 1/8" so that it wouldn't destroy bullets) I was never suggesting that it should be part of the EOL line or be a "epic .257 bullet". Those bullets are extreme, I just want a modern competitive bullet for the .257. Those were great choices for EOL and Berger to start with and .264 and .308 should be addressed before they think about a .257 EOL. I only brought them up to make the point that there doesn't need to be a common factory made gun (twist) capable of shooting a bullet for it to be viable. Also, I am not ignoring the custom makers and have reached out in PMs.

I do not want to pee on any one's campfire but 155gr in .257 is way out on the fringe. We all would love to have a gun that shot .8 BC bullets at 4000 fps and didn't kick or burn barrels, but lets be realistic in our request. We have to admit that the smaller the bore the harder it is to make a workable high BC bullet so lets tap the breaks. This does need to be marketable so it should be viable in the current cartridges not just the .257 Weatherby or some super wildcat. My thought was that a 130 gr high bc bullet out of a 25-06 at +3000 fps would be my ideal deer set up, in the Weatherby it would be a laser that would be unfair to hunt with, and it would still go plenty fast out of a 1/4 Bob to make a nice mild deer gun.

In target applications it could be used in the Roberts, Roberts AI, or any of the common target wildcats. I keep seeing 6mm Creedmoors, 6mm x 47 Lapuas... showing up on competitive shooting sites. If there were a bullet that had a BC a little better than either the 6mm or the 6.5 I believe that competitive shooters who are always looking for that little edge would flock to it. I am not one of those guys who competes or is one TV who can really champion this cause. This was my small contribution. All I can say is that Lilja makes the barrels to support the bullets. I guarantee I will order one the day a suitable bullet is released.

 

[scottyd2506]

This thread has a custom bullet maker even asking and offering to build the best he can and you guys turn up your nose and make zero effort, ya that's the way you get traction with manufactures Then to top it of it's fun to B***h about no bullets then when the offer comes, nope don't want it cause it suxs and we don't shoot them anymore or they burn barrels so wont' shot much, yep that should motivate some bullet makers to roll out some quarter bores!!!!

So you think we should jump for joy about a .281 G7 BC bullet go out and spend $1200 to re barrel (machine work+ barrel etc) a rifle to 7.5 twist for a .550 G1 bc bullet.
This isn't a "b***h, it's the FACTS, that's what we post here "FACTS"

I hope the guy does well selling his 130 grain .257 bullets, but I think I speak for most of us, most of us are not going switch from a Berger 115 w a BC of .480 to a .550 bc bullet and have to spend over 1K to have a 7 tw barrel. not worth the small gain. I don't see a big market for it and hope he doesn't invest in something he might lose on.

I feel as a consumer I should voice what we want, so my fellow gun enthusiasts doesn't ask, after going broke from a mostly un-wanted product "How come you didn't speak out?" Well I did!!

Also I've given up on the 25 bore for long range (1000 yards) like most have told me. That's what they make the .264 for. when they make a good .500 bc 25 caliber they'll make a .7 bc 26... just like when berger made the .668 bc 27 caliber, they made a .755 bc 7mm. 28 calibers trump 27 bores for long range just like 26's trump 25's for long range. probably always going to be like that.

The bullet selection for 24 26 7mm are vast, why fight it, can't beat em, join em.
The 25-06 and 270 are great rounds, but none to limited for high bc bullets. At least Matrix and Berger are trying with the. 277 some.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Rumored 245 .30

I hope this rumor becomes reality.



As to a 155gr 25cal I doubt Berger would make a 25 cal bullet heavier than their heaviest 6.5 offerings.