Hey wildcatters

[CatShooter]

I didn't have a question.

You made my point very well.

Please. Let's agree to disagree. To me an "improved" cartridge is a wildcat, to you it's "Improved" but not a wildcat.

I'm good with that.

You DID have a question...

"Once there is a SAMMI spec for it, does it loose it's wildcat status?"

I answered it.

This is not between you and me - it is you and the world - you cannot fire an "off the self" cartridges in a wildcat - THAT is the simple difference.

It has been that way for at least the last 80 years - only the young new kids with no background in shooting see it any other way.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

You DID have a question...

"Once there is a SAMMI spec for it, does it loose it's wildcat status?"

I answered it.

This is not between you and me - it is you and the world - you cannot fire an "off the self" cartridges in a wildcat - THAT is the simple difference.

It has been that way for at least the last 80 years - only the young new kids with no background in shooting see it any other way.

What "young new kids"?

No matter how hard you push we will not agree. You've made your point. I still don't agree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackley " The Ackley Improved family of wildcat cartridges are designed to be easily made by rechambering existing firearms"

 

[Deleted member 46119]

From the back page cover of P.O. Ackley Volume II, Handbook for shooters and Reloaders

"The author P.O. Ackley, has been associated with the development of high velocity "wildcat" cartridges for over a quater of a century..."

"His line of "wildcat" cartridges represents superlative engineering..."

Now about those wildcats that are "improved" versions of SAMMI standard cases where brass forming can be accomplished by firing in an "improved" chamber.....

 

[FEENIX]

As previously noted, I'm no wildcat expert and in no way siding anybody as there are many reasons for wildcatting as already been provided but I do like SAAMI's definition of a wildcat cartridge ...

Cheers!

 

[Oldschool280]

Well done gentleman. Thanx

 

[MudRunner2005]

Gotta take Fred and Ed's sides on this one... If it ain't SAAMI, it's a wildcat.

 

[CatShooter]

It's a shame that in your eagerness to "win", you missed something very important.

Someone can buy an improved cartridge rifle, shoot factory ammo in it for 50 years, and never need a single tool, or any loading knowledge to use it.
With a wildcat, you need tools and knowledge to fire the first round.

With "your definition", you have nothing in your shooting lexicon to differentiate the two.

You win...
... and you loose.

 

[Oldschool280]

Ladies and gentlemen, It was my understanding that this website was intended to share resources and experiences between " like minded individuals". I do not believe that there was at any time a competition of wits. My original post has been asnwered both sourly and very cordially as well. To those who offer they're opinion without being abrasive thank you, to the other guy do as my mom said " if you can't say anything nice shut the f...up"!

 

[FEENIX]

Ladies and gentlemen, It was my understanding that this website was intended to share respurces and experiences betwenn " like minded individuals". I do not believe that there was at any time a competition of wits. My original post has been asnwered both sourly and very cordially as well. To those who offer they're opinion without being abrasive thank you, to the other guy do you as my mom said " if you can't say anything nice shut the f...up"!

Sad but true!

Keep us posted on your project, cheers!

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's a shame that in your eagerness to "win", you missed something very important.

Someone can buy an improved cartridge rifle, shoot factory ammo in it for 50 years, and never need a single tool, or any loading knowledge to use it.
With a wildcat, you need tools and knowledge to fire the first round.

With "your definition", you have nothing in your shooting lexicon to differentiate the two.

You win...
... and you loose.

I form cases from .270 Win for my .25-06 Ackley. I have to do so if I want proper-length cases that are 2.494" after fire-forming. I have to cut them .020" longer when I trim the cases after necking them down to .25 caliber. Then I have to run a reduced load (because I am forming longer than spec cases that are slightly reaching into the leade, and I seat the bullets into the lands to keep the ***-end planted against the bolt face). When the case forms in that first initial firing, the case neck shortens .020" to then properly be set at 2.494".

Just because some people might go buy .25-06 brass to easily form cases from, doesn't mean that everyone who shoots an AI doesn't know how to properly wildcat.

And while we will agree to disagree, the technical term for wildcatting got started for people improving or making whole new cartridges from existing parent cartridges. So, technically, anything that was not standardized, was considered a "wildcat" cartridge.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Ladies and gentlemen, It was my understanding that this website was intended to share respurces and experiences betwenn " like minded individuals". I do not believe that there was at any time a competition of wits. My original post has been asnwered both sourly and very cordially as well. To those who offer they're opinion without being abrasive thank you, to the other guy do you as my mom said " if you can't say anything nice shut the f...up"!

Yep.

 

[Jud96]

I actually have a full line of cartridges based off the 7.5x55 Swiss that I drew up 4-5 years ago when I was only 15 haha. I had just started to really get into long range and understanding cartridge development. I thought I had came upon a really clever cartridge that would allow longer C.O.A.L. in the shorter case, feed in a long action, and equal the 06 family of rounds. Then I realized the 7.5x55 is nearly identical to the .284 Win case. So I scrapped that idea and have been a fan of the .284 ever since then!

I also have a full line based on the 6.5x55 shortened and improved, oddly enough very similar to the 6.5 Creedmoor ever before I knew what that was and before it's popularity grew. I use to have a lot of fun looking through the Cartridges of the World book and looking for something that someone has never wildcatted. I have a few designs now that are more practical, I believe, but will be much more difficult forming brass for and making them come to life.

 

[Oldschool280]

Ahh i'm not alone! Although im jealous that you figured this out as a teen! Awesome and thanx for the info. .284 is very likeable by my taste.

 

[Jud96]

Ahh i'm not alone! Although im jealous that you figured this out as a teen! Awesome and thanx for the info. .284 is very likeable by my taste.

The .284 will be my next rifle I build. I plan to get a reamer made with a longer throat and run the 162 and 180gr Hornady ELDs. It equals or exceeds the .280 Remington and won't have OAL issues in a long action with the long and heavy bullets.