Help with Fierce cold bore accuracy recommendations

[Dean2]

Hey guys, I have an old college buddy who is looking to upgrade his long-range rifle. He currently uses a Browning X-Bolt HC LR in 28 Nosler with 1:8 twist and 26" barrel. He was looking at their Pro and McMillan models, but I have steered him toward Fierce at the same or just slightly more price point. He found one online that is apparently an older model (he is looking at 300 Win Mag only due to the availability of components) with a 26" barrel and 10 twist. He called Fierce and they are talking to him about the newer models, which have 24" barrels and 9 twist.

He hunts in Southern corn/bean fields, and most of his shots are 300 - 500 yds, but can be as far as 750 or 800 in the extreme.

His current 28 Nosler shoots 1/2" at 200yds, which is where he has it zeroed, but he missed 3 really big deer last year, which was attributed to lack of cold-bore accuracy. He uses H1000, so temp stability should be ok.

I am trying to see if any of you have experience with the Fierce rifles and know if the cold bore accuracy is really good on any of those, or if there is another comparably priced maker that's better. The Fierce rep was telling him that many people had best cold bore accuracy with their carbon fiber wrapped models. I don't have enough experience with CF barrels to advise him. His main concerns (and mine) is that the new guns have 24" barrels with 9 twists and weigh 6 pounds or nearly so, vs the 26" 10 twist barrels in the older models. He wants to use a 165 grain bullet, which is flatter to 500 than 210 - 250 grainers that would be better for really long range. Also, at 6 - 6 1/2 pounds of rifle, he's going to take a pounding with the big heavy bullets. He shoots out of an elevated shooting house and doesn't have to carry the rifle miles on end, so I'm telling him the newer lightweight, fast twist models are trendy and perhaps the best designed sheep/mt goat rifles on the planet, but may not be the best designed Sourhern whitetail rifle.

Cold bore accuracy is his main concern. Any advice around Fierce or others on this subject?

First question, when your buddy is testing the cold bore accuracy on his existing rifle what are the results at 200 yards. Is the first shot within 1", 2" etc of the next two shots. Is the first shot dead on where he wants it on the target?
I have shot a great many rifles over the years. I have never had one where the first shot was more than an inch from the next two, and that is pretty rare to find one with even that big a difference. I always use the first three shots to set vertical and horizontal position on the target.
Unless the very first shot is wild and far from the desired POI changing guns is not going to solve his problem. Fierce are great guns but it would not be my pick for a stand shooting rifle out to 800 yards. Get something heavier, designed for that type of hunting. Light weight guns are much harder for the average person to shoot well, especially when you get inot the 300 Mag class.

 

[.300 Dakota]

First question, when your buddy is testing the cold bore accuracy on his existing rifle what are the results at 200 yards. Is the first shot within 1", 2" etc of the next two shots. Is the first shot dead on where he wants it on the target?
I have shot a great many rifles over the years. I have never had one where the first shot was more than an inch from the next two, and that is pretty rare to find one with even that big a difference. I always use the first three shots to set vertical and horizontal position on the target.
Unless the very first shot is wild and far from the desired POI changing guns is not going to solve his problem. Fierce are great guns but it would not be my pick for a stand shooting rifle out to 800 yards. Get something heavier, designed for that type of hunting. Light weight guns are much harder for the average person to shoot well, especially when you get inot the 300 Mag class.

Hey thanks for the insight. I don't know the particulars of his shot sequence, and not sure he keeps up with it, which is likely the entire issue. I think he was basically just looking for Intel on Fierce to have an "excuse" to buy a new rifle.

I have relayed info to him around cold bore vs cold shooter vs cold clean bore vs cold fouled bore that I got from both here and Sniper's Hide. He knows the 28 Nosler he has is capable of incredible accuracy. Given the info mentioned above he is talking about being much more conscious of first-shot POI as related to POA. He sees now that there is likely no issue at all with his Browning and is thinking of using the money he was about to dole out on a Fierce and put it on a guided elk hunt instead.

No one has really been able to offer anything of use on Fierce rifles, such as tendencies, how many shots to break in, true accuracy potential, etc. We can read their recommendations and the hype of guaranteed accuracy, but he wanted to hear from several people who'd actually bought and used one enough to offer insight. No one in our area that we can find carries these on the shelf for him to pick up and handle. We did learn that they use McGowen barrels and one model uses a Remington 700 action while another model uses the Sako 85. I was able to give him the positives and negatives of all these components, and he was about to purchase an older model online in 300 Win Mag with 26" barrel and 1:10 twist, which is what I recommended he do after the price of a new Fierce went from $2600 something to $3300 something after he talked to a 2nd person from Fierce. I reminded him that the accuracy guarantee was offered on the older models, as well.

He and I both hunt just a few days out of the year and don't get to the range to practice every day. In his case, his range where he practices is in the actual stand he hunts from. He was smart enough to get the scenario as close to how it would be on the actual hunt as possible. I found out the hard way in 2016 what not understanding and accounting for cold bore / clean bore could cost when hunting in different climates and elevations and shooting at much steeper angles than back home when you add up all the variables and then take a shot from a position you never practiced because you didn't know you needed to. I missed the deer of a lifetime that would have been one of the best typical scores ever in the state of Oklahoma. I applied what I'd learned through error there to connect on a 6 1/2yo bucket list buck in Kansas later on. And I know for certain if had not applied that knowledge, I would have missed in Kansas also, because it was closer than it was suppose to be, but I allowed for a larger margin of error.

He and I both learned something after researching cold bore, and I am sure he will be ready for the upcoming season with this knew knowledge under his belt whether he buys a Fierce or not.

Aside from user error, if anyone can give any hands-on detail about any of the Fierce models, I will relay the messages. If I was making the money I was 10 years ago, I'd buy one myself just to be able to break it down for him.

Thanks again for your insight.

 

[Valek]

Hey thanks for the insight. I don't know the particulars of his shot sequence, and not sure he keeps up with it, which is likely the entire issue. I think he was basically just looking for Intel on Fierce to have an "excuse" to buy a new rifle.

I have relayed info to him around cold bore vs cold shooter vs cold clean bore vs cold fouled bore that I got from both here and Sniper's Hide. He knows the 28 Nosler he has is capable of incredible accuracy. Given the info mentioned above he is talking about being much more conscious of first-shot POI as related to POA. He sees now that there is likely no issue at all with his Browning and is thinking of using the money he was about to dole out on a Fierce and put it on a guided elk hunt instead.

No one has really been able to offer anything of use on Fierce rifles, such as tendencies, how many shots to break in, true accuracy potential, etc. We can read their recommendations and the hype of guaranteed accuracy, but he wanted to hear from several people who'd actually bought and used one enough to offer insight. No one in our area that we can find carries these on the shelf for him to pick up and handle. We did learn that they use McGowen barrels and one model uses a Remington 700 action while another model uses the Sako 85. I was able to give him the positives and negatives of all these components, and he was about to purchase an older model online in 300 Win Mag with 26" barrel and 1:10 twist, which is what I recommended he do after the price of a new Fierce went from $2600 something to $3300 something after he talked to a 2nd person from Fierce. I reminded him that the accuracy guarantee was offered on the older models, as well.

He and I both hunt just a few days out of the year and don't get to the range to practice every day. In his case, his range where he practices is in the actual stand he hunts from. He was smart enough to get the scenario as close to how it would be on the actual hunt as possible. I found out the hard way in 2016 what not understanding and accounting for cold bore / clean bore could cost when hunting in different climates and elevations and shooting at much steeper angles than back home when you add up all the variables and then take a shot from a position you never practiced because you didn't know you needed to. I missed the deer of a lifetime that would have been one of the best typical scores ever in the state of Oklahoma. I applied what I'd learned through error there to connect on a 6 1/2yo bucket list buck in Kansas later on. And I know for certain if had not applied that knowledge, I would have missed in Kansas also, because it was closer than it was suppose to be, but I allowed for a larger margin of error.

He and I both learned something after researching cold bore, and I am sure he will be ready for the upcoming season with this knew knowledge under his belt whether he buys a Fierce or not.

Aside from user error, if anyone can give any hands-on detail about any of the Fierce models, I will relay the messages. If I was making the money I was 10 years ago, I'd buy one myself just to be able to break it down for him.

Thanks again for your insight.

Wish that I could provide info on Fierce, but cannot. I DO, however, thank you for your comment about cold bore v cold clean bore v cold fouled bore (and remembering too, cold clean oiled bore) in addition to shooting angle. I was about to comment on those when up jumped your comments. Thanks, again, and good luck to your bud.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Everytime I get ready for a hunt I get my rifle zeroed in and clean it. Before the hunt I shoot it once to foul the barrel then let it cool. After it is at temp with the enviroment I shoot it one more time to make sure it is still at zero and put it away with a fouled barrel. When I get out for the hunt and shoot the first bullet out it is at zero and if I miss the animal it is my fault not the rifle.

 

[atkins0331]

This can get a little confusing.
Clean bore and cold fouled bore I have found to be two different animals. I have no experience in Fierce but have done testing on a cold fouled bore. I have found that if I run a clean boresnake down the fouled barrel of my Bergara before shooting, I eliminate cold bore shift.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I find that interesting. I never been able to warn up my rifle to shot while hunting afield. I can't recall every having any problem with my reloads not going where I wanting to go. In cold fires, I look to see where it hit, before going onto the next round. I did some looking this morning on H-1000 and couldn't find anything really about it. Hodgdon Extreme Powder chart doesn't show anything on H1000. I normally use H4350 in a lot of my loads and never had a problem at close range or out 400 yds. with cold bore shoot. Talking about weather from 100* to -20*. If there was I couldn't see it. The other is I haven't use H1000 yet, nor do I have any yet. Maybe someday I will be able to get my hands on some to try it out. Like they say "wish in one hand and ***T in the other hand, and see which one get fuller faster".
The other is you can go to Hodgdon and down load their Extreme Powder Chart for reference. It comes in a PDF file.

 

[skipglo]

Ah, com'on guys. The OP comes up with a creative excuse to buy a new rifle, and ya'll shoot him down. Where's the enabling support?

It's not that creative.....but my wife would buy into it! ( Not that I ever consulted with any of them when it came to buying guns....hmmmmm...could be a possible connection here!)

 

[.300 Dakota]

Everytime I get ready for a hunt I get my rifle zeroed in and clean it. Before the hunt I shoot it once to foul the barrel then let it cool. After it is at temp with the enviroment I shoot it one more time to make sure it is still at zero and put it away with a fouled barrel. When I get out for the hunt and shoot the first bullet out it is at zero and if I miss the animal it is my fault not the rifle.

I do this except I haven't generally fired a 2nd shot at ambient. I normally don't worry about it before leaving for the hunt because I know the guide/outfitter will usually INSIST you check your zero (and give them a chance to evaluate your marksmanship to have an idea of how close he needs to get you), BUT, on my trip to OK, they expected you to be ready to roll immediately and had no range to check/foul. It taught me another lesson to not be dependent on someone else to get you ready. You can bet I'LL be shooting as much as possible beforehand if I ever get another chance.

The exception is the Kansas hunt I mentioned before. Black powder! Every shot is a cold, clean bore. Just have to know where they're landing in that set up just like in other types of hunts.

 

[Rosebud]

Hey guys, I have an old college buddy who is looking to upgrade his long-range rifle. He currently uses a Browning X-Bolt HC LR in 28 Nosler with 1:8 twist and 26" barrel. He was looking at their Pro and McMillan models, but I have steered him toward Fierce at the same or just slightly more price point. He found one online that is apparently an older model (he is looking at 300 Win Mag only due to the availability of components) with a 26" barrel and 10 twist. He called Fierce and they are talking to him about the newer models, which have 24" barrels and 9 twist.

He hunts in Southern corn/bean fields, and most of his shots are 300 - 500 yds, but can be as far as 750 or 800 in the extreme.

His current 28 Nosler shoots 1/2" at 200yds, which is where he has it zeroed, but he missed 3 really big deer last year, which was attributed to lack of cold-bore accuracy. He uses H1000, so temp stability should be ok.

I am trying to see if any of you have experience with the Fierce rifles and know if the cold bore accuracy is really good on any of those, or if there is another comparably priced maker that's better. The Fierce rep was telling him that many people had best cold bore accuracy with their carbon fiber wrapped models. I don't have enough experience with CF barrels to advise him. His main concerns (and mine) is that the new guns have 24" barrels with 9 twists and weigh 6 pounds or nearly so, vs the 26" 10 twist barrels in the older models. He wants to use a 165 grain bullet, which is flatter to 500 than 210 - 250 grainers that would be better for really long range. Also, at 6 - 6 1/2 pounds of rifle, he's going to take a pounding with the big heavy bullets. He shoots out of an elevated shooting house and doesn't have to carry the rifle miles on end, so I'm telling him the newer lightweight, fast twist models are trendy and perhaps the best designed sheep/mt goat rifles on the planet, but may not be the best designed Sourhern whitetail rifle.

Cold bore accuracy is his main concern. Any advice around Fierce or others on this subject?

Next time you and he are shooting slip a empty case in it and watch his reaction. My guess is he will flinch badly.

 

[Indian7953]

Next time you and he are shooting slip a empty case in it and watch his reaction. My guess is he will flinch badly.

I had a Remington 700 titanium 7SAUM, that when cold and clean would shoot 3 inches right of point of aim at 100yards on the first shot, 2 inches right of point of aim on the second shot, and 1/2 inch left of point of aim on the third shot. It always did this no matter what load I was using. When the gun had more than three fouling shots through it, it would shoot one inch right of of aim on the first cold shot, then move 1 inch left of center for the second shot. To live with this I always shot three Fowler shots after cleaning, checked point of impact in the morning, first cold bore shot and aimed accordingly. It worked great on my dahl sheep at just under 500 yards.

 

[Joefrazell]

How far were the shots on the 3 deer?

 

[shepardswatch]

Hey guys, I have an old college buddy who is looking to upgrade his long-range rifle. He currently uses a Browning X-Bolt HC LR in 28 Nosler with 1:8 twist and 26" barrel. He was looking at their Pro and McMillan models, but I have steered him toward Fierce at the same or just slightly more price point. He found one online that is apparently an older model (he is looking at 300 Win Mag only due to the availability of components) with a 26" barrel and 10 twist. He called Fierce and they are talking to him about the newer models, which have 24" barrels and 9 twist.

He hunts in Southern corn/bean fields, and most of his shots are 300 - 500 yds, but can be as far as 750 or 800 in the extreme.

His current 28 Nosler shoots 1/2" at 200yds, which is where he has it zeroed, but he missed 3 really big deer last year, which was attributed to lack of cold-bore accuracy. He uses H1000, so temp stability should be ok.

I am trying to see if any of you have experience with the Fierce rifles and know if the cold bore accuracy is really good on any of those, or if there is another comparably priced maker that's better. The Fierce rep was telling him that many people had best cold bore accuracy with their carbon fiber wrapped models. I don't have enough experience with CF barrels to advise him. His main concerns (and mine) is that the new guns have 24" barrels with 9 twists and weigh 6 pounds or nearly so, vs the 26" 10 twist barrels in the older models. He wants to use a 165 grain bullet, which is flatter to 500 than 210 - 250 grainers that would be better for really long range. Also, at 6 - 6 1/2 pounds of rifle, he's going to take a pounding with the big heavy bullets. He shoots out of an elevated shooting house and doesn't have to carry the rifle miles on end, so I'm telling him the newer lightweight, fast twist models are trendy and perhaps the best designed sheep/mt goat rifles on the planet, but may not be the best designed Southern whitetail rifle.

Cold bore accuracy is his main concern. Any advice around Fierce or others on this subject?

Try using Lock Ease, when you stop cleaning every inch of the inside of your barrel you remove helpful buffers that work for the better Especial in a purged barrel's.. A very wise PRC Shooter started using
"Lock-Ease Graphite Lock Fluid reduce to protect against cold bore flyers", He started using this compound by placing it on a cleaning patch and liberally applying a generous amount then letting dry before bore sighting and noticed less flyers from the first bore test shot's..
Never hurts to try what some of our predecessors have used that actually works..

Many of you will know this Gentleman by his genius complements

 

[MagnumManiac]

A lightweight rifle is not the answer.
An elevated platform WILL flatten trajectory and it is MANDATORY to check your zero whenever you leave home or change where you're shooting after zeroing at a different location.
I have zero experience with Fierce rifles, but I am dubious with the accuracy of CF barrels in cold weather.

Cheers.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

No experience with Fierce, but if he needs an excuse to buy a new rifle...Giddy up!

Skimmed through this, so may have already been mentioned.
Did your buddy map his cold bore? One shot and a follow up on multiple day in order to gain confidence in where it would impact?
Did he do the same close to or at the ranges he missed the deer? (not just at 100 yards)

A ___ MOA rifle from the bench/comfortable prone shooting position on a range with bags, etc. is not the same as prone on a slope with a rock in your hip, sitting in a stand, kneeling, etc. Rifle may be capable, but we as shooters are the weak link in the equation.

Lightweight is good for carry, but not forgiving for long range. Have to decide what your parameters are. I have a sub 8 pound 6.5SAUM that is great for woods, but not so much at the longer ranges. FOR ME anything 9.5 pounds or so can get it done out a good ways.
I have also had difficulty with the lighter rifles and heavy bullets. May just be user error, but I think the torque on the barrel does something to me . There is a reason sniper rifles weigh a ton...