Help with brass please.

[MarkInPA]

Can I get a little help with brass please? I have some early Nosler brass in .30-06 that I purchased close to 20 years ago, soon after they began selling their own brass. Believe it or not, its been sealed in its original packaging and I have not used until now. I'm disappointed with it. I thought I was buying premium brass. What I have found is that it is short a couple thousands in overall length below the trim-to length. Every single piece. I'm on my second firing and so far the brass has not stretched to minimum specification like I had hoped it would. I have also not found the need to bump the shoulders yet. In fact, I have been waiting to find a case that chambers tight so that I can get an idea how large my chamber is and set my dies accordingly. So, I have been using the deepest Redding Competition shell holder until I can actually get some data to work with. Anyhow, I am getting a little off topic. I am thinking about buying new brass. I am curious if the Nosler brass that is being sold today has the same issue or maybe they rectified that. I had read on forums where other people had similar issues. I have found where Norma, Hornady, and Starline brass is available but, don't know much about the quality. Anyone have experience with any of these? I know that Startline is brass in the pistol but don't know much about the rifle. I also had read where Norma at one time was making brass for Nosler. So I might be interested in knowing if the Norma brass has the same issues that I was describing.

 

[Victor3Ranger1]

I would definitely anneal the brass, this might help.
My older brass definitely does better after I have annealed it.

 

[Fullbore92]

What are your measurements between unfired brass and the twice fired?

 

[Eric H]

I'm using 30.06 Nosler brass that I purchased 3 or 4 years ago and haven't had a problem if that helps.

 

[MarkInPA]

What are your measurements between unfired brass and the twice fired?

I have my brass loaded right now. I will have to fire them and measure again. I can check the lenght on the new brass tomorrow. I'll have to check my notes to see if I wrote down the lengths this last time. Guess I could do a little better at keeping a record.

 

[sep]

I bought some Nosler 30-06 brass about 5 years ago. I had the same experience as you. It's pretty short in length. It has held up well to 4 or 5 firings. I'm retiring it now only because I have decided to use Norma brass.

I've used Norma brass in 338 WM and 7mm-08 and it has held up pretty well. It seems soft but that's just my general impression. I say soft because of the ease with which the first bullets you load in the virgin brass feel. They load really smoothly. After the first firing, it loads just like any other brass I have used. The primer pockets seem to loosen up a bit after a few firings if you are shooting max or slightly over max loads but I haven't had any primers fall out yet.

I load 30-30 with Starline brass but I don't have much experience with it. So, I really can't give you much of an opinion. Too few firings on the cases to draw any conclusions.

I anneal after every firing using an Amp annealer too.

 

[Will.284]

I have used starline brass in my 6.5 creeds for some time. If you anneal after every firing they will last quite a long time. I've got 10 plus loading out of mine and still going strong

 

[Bob Wright]

Anneal the neck and shoulder. Then load them back up. They should fully form. Trim length is not bad if it's within a few thousands short.

 

[MagnumManiac]

The length being short is a non issue, however, seeing your brass is that old, it would've been made by Federal and it will not last but a few firings. It is pathetically soft and primer pockets loosen far too early.
I have a box of 300WM from the same time, it is Nosler stamped Federal junk.
I won't touch Nosler brass ever again…

Cheers.

 

[Pdyson]

I have some Nosler belted magnum brass that's 10 or 15yrs old and it's good. 4 or 5 years ago I bought two boxes of Nosler (super expensive) premium brass for my 28 Nosler. I ended up stopping load development during ladder testing and pulling bullets due to high pressure signs. Heavy bolt lift, deep extractor marks, and shaving brass off the case head. Velocity readings told me they sold me ultra soft brass. What a waste! Total junk, Hornady was better. I'll never trust them again.

 

[birddog 68]

What I have found is that it is short a couple thousands in overall length below the trim-to length. Every single piece.

Not a problem.

I'm on my second firing and so far the brass has not stretched to minimum specification like I had hoped it would. I have also not found the need to bump the shoulders yet.

I don't see this as a problem either. Sometimes it takes 3 firings before you need to bump the shoulder.
I'm definitely not as experienced as others on here but if this brass was too soft I would assume that it would need to be trimmed by now.
I've had good luck with starline and norma. Many dislike nosler brass but I've not had any problems other than it's priced too high for mediocre brass.

 

[crashlanding]

What birddog says, I have some Peterson brass I just bought and it to was short a few thousandth of trim length, after first firing, the shoulder had moved forward but I didn't need to push it back. I annealed, re sized and I'm ready to load again, I see no issues with what you have

 

[Hugnot]

No sweat should the brass be a few thou short of trim length. Brass is not like beer - relatively short shelf life. If sealed & protected from galvanic corrosion caused by contact with another metal having different chemical activity in the presence of an electrolyte.

I have found that partial F/L sizing can slightly lengthen a case.

Are there any indications of excessive headspace, like an annular ring just forward of cartridge web? Are primers backed out after firing. Are you able to measure case from datum line on shoulder to base.



Cartridge specs are shown on top dIagram.

Removal of firing pin & spring assembly from bolt will provide a better feel of cartridge fit upon bolt closing. Placing tape having a known thickness of like .002 inches on base of case and closing bolt will give some rough idea of headspace. Your rifle may have more headspace than other rifles allowing a no resistance bolt closing. Consider taking your rifle to a pro & check out headspace with a no-go gauge.

Buying shell holders of different heights is not necessary, should you need to reduce excessive datum length (the 2.0526 - .007 measurement) to allow normal bolt closing force with ideal headspace, like .002-.004. (this is subject to debate), just take a shell holder & grind the top down using a Dremel tool to allow firm contact with bottom of F/L die that may be adjusted up & down in press.

I buy lots of once fired brass from vendor having same name, oncefiredbrass.com. I make 6.5-06 - neck down, turn, trim using .25-06 pilot & .280 using Norma .270W - neck up to .30, make false shoulder, F/L size with .280 die, fire form, trim with .270 pilot, & turn.

I buy Federal 6.5 CM, small primer for 6.5 CM & 6 CM - neck down, turn, & trim. Loads for both are at 60K - 61K psi & primer pocket expansion is comparable to others. The Federal brass appears to be of equal quality but has slightly less capacity than Norma.

 

[MarkInPA]

So I took some measurements on the overall length of cases. The specification call for .30-06 brass to be between 2.484 and 2.494. I took measurements on 20 new pieces of virgin brass. They ranged from a high of 2.4835 to 2.4790. The average of the 20 cases was 2.4812. Now for the part that I can not explain. I was able to find 4 cases that were fired. Not sure if they were once fired or twice fired. They measure as follows, 2.4815, 2.4750, 2.4735, and 2.4740. Not sure why they are shrinking. Maybe it has something to do with the shoulder moving or the way the brass is being sized. I've seen pistol brass shrink in size but never knew it to happen in rifle cases. Anyhow, I really do not like what I'm seeing. I would like to square the necks and uniform them to the same length but, I can not even think about doing any trim work yet. For awhile I thought maybe my calipers were off even though I do have a good pair. I went so far as to buy a 3" gauge block. When I checked my calipers, they were dead on. These cases are being shot out of a brand new Bergara B-14 rifle. As far as accuracy is concerned, I can't complain too much. The few times I have shot it, I have already achieved the guaranty 1 MOA at 100 yards without fooling with my reloads. As a matter of fact, I chose to use old school 180 grain Hornady round nose bullets. Nothing fancy. I am sure if I was to extend my range, their performance would decrease and the spitzer boat tails would perform better.