Help on Building Custom .338

[kc0pph]

Well Id like to eventually hit large game out pretty far but i need to build up the skill first. In colorado ive seen a lot of nice areas where "in the off season" i have watched elk at well over 1,000M and it would just tickle me to death if i could hit one that far.

 

[BountyHunter]

I understand the total cost of the barrel, what im a little concerned about right now is the action. I need to talk to a smith and see how rough of an action he can transform into a darn good action. From my understanding of the Trueing and lapping process it makes even a horrible abused bolt into a pristine perfectly fitting bolt.

Wrong!!! Only replacing the bolt will do that close but still not all way. Cost $200 Dave Kiff PTG bolt fitted. You will find you will spend way more money "trying' to make 700 as smooth as a custom and never achieve it. Plus you have to change to a sako/M16 extractor (another $150). bottom line is you will never have a "darn good action" for all the money. It will be OK at best.

Go to Dave Tooley at [email protected] (704) 864-7525 and look at his 700 clone Orion action for $900 with recoil lug. Comes with fitted bolt, fluted, sako or m16 extractor, melonite coated, exended bolt handle threaded with replacable knob. You can search here for several of builds on his action. You will be money ahead versus tweaking a 700 and have 3x the gun when done. Same with stiller predator, pierce and several other 700 clone actions at are very good, but do not equal the Orion for the money.

As for caliber choice, you will be much better served with the 338 Edge or the 338 Norma. I would go with the Edge, it will give you standard Lapua ballistics basically and off the shelf dies, good loads already out there. Same with the 338 Norma.

Tooley action $900 or similar custom such as Predator

Chambering will cost ~$200

Bedding ~$150-200

Stock $200-800 My bet for the money is the Stockeys LR Bobby Hart model at $297.50 and it has the V block so you can eliminated the bedding costs. Plus it comes with recoil pad and sling swivels ready to go. Got one and love it. For the money cannot be beat.

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-537/*NEW%21*-Bobby-Hart-AccuBlock/Detail

Trigger (used 700 is $60 and another $75 for tweaking, Rifle Basix is $125, Jewell is $240)

Bottom metal is (used $50 with another $25 for extended Wyatts mag box)

Barrel from any good mftr is ~$350

Muzzle brake is another ~$150-250 installed depending. I like the Holland Radial

That puts you at $1825 for custom action, stockys stock in edge or 338 Norma.

Cheap 700 used will cost ~$300-400

Anything selling cheap will need rebluing or coating another $75-200 depending on what.

truing rcvr, bolt, lugs is $150-400 depending on who and what is done

changing extractor is $200

so you are into a used 700 for around $600-900 anyway and have way less action!!

BH

 

[kc0pph]

I never even thought of a 700 clone. I will have to look into that after i get off of work tonight.

You mentioned that the Stockeys LR Bobby Hart model comes with the v-block so then i would just have to get the barrel mfg to thread the the barrel and leave the 4" to mount the v-block? And i guess i will need the cap to hold on the Recoil Lug.

 

[BountyHunter]

When you thread the barrel onto the action, that holds the recoil lug on.

The Holland Radial brake is a baffel brake by the way. that is just its name.

I would order a barrel blank or send my action to the barrel make IF they offer to chamber and thread. Not all do.

As this is your first build I would pick a good smith, work out the details with him and have him build it in total.

BH

 

[kc0pph]

I watched a video from AGI about them building a custom rifle. What the smith said was V Block bedding required to have the barrel threaded to go into the action, then have about 4" of straight barrel and then threads past that. The Recoil lug goes on and then a custom made nut holds the recoil lug about 4" infront of the action. There is then a block that gets bedded into the stock, and from there the action is screwed onto the block.


***==== |--------------
......==|==

If the *** is the action the === is the flat part on the barrel (and the bedded block) and the ------ is the taper. The | is the block. (and the screw on the lower part) This means the Recoil lug contacts the V-Block and not the stock. (ignore the ....)

I was thinking about using Pac-Nor and have them chamber and thread the barrel.

 

[Bob L.]

I started with a Rem 700 action. I decided to build a 338RUM. My smith installed a 4" Wyatt extended box, after market recoil lug, and a 30" rock creek barrel. I used a holland quick discharge brake. I had him throat it for the berger 300 hybrids. It shoots better than I can. So far it has held at or under 1/2 moa to 700 yards. It is capable of 1,000 yards plus, the only thing holding me back is the amount of adjustment on my scope, I run out around 1375-1400 yards with my vx3 6.5-20 target. I think it will do everything you are looking to do.
Good luck
Bob

 

[bigngreen]

I think your getting yourself confused, the use of a bedding block on the barrel is something that they have done in bench rest shooting which requires a stock that you can inlet the huge block into. The bedding block in the Bobby Hart stocks at Stockys stocks is a CNC cut block that is fitted into a normal stock that the action sets in, some will then skim bed these to give it that final perfect fit, these are what you want for this application.

 

[kc0pph]

Well ill watch the video again as its been a while and write up the specifics on what he does and more importantly his name. One of the advantages he stated of this bedding style is the ability to remove the stock from the action and place it back in with no change in POI.

Dumb question. What is the Bottom Metal? Would it be something under the follower in the mag, or is it the hinged floorplate?

Dumb Question #2: What is Locking Time? I saw this http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/products.php?item=2
and it looks nice. It says locking time 2.3ms. My guess would be how fast the bolt can be locked into position. but wouldent that be dependent on the Force exerted on the bolt handle? Im 99.99% certain im wrong

 

[Dano5001]

I think your getting yourself confused, the use of a bedding block on the barrel is something that they have done in bench rest shooting which requires a stock that you can inlet the huge block into. The bedding block in the Bobby Hart stocks at Stockys stocks is a CNC cut block that is fitted into a normal stock that the action sets in, some will then skim bed these to give it that final perfect fit, these are what you want for this application.

+1
kc0pph
Two Different systems, I belive the video you are referring to is Darrell Holland building a tactical rifle using a v block bedded barrel, as far as I know this would have to be done by a gunsmith and looks expensive.

The other system is a v block for the action, the Bobby Heart stocks have the v block installed already. you can buy just the action v block from Whidden Gunworks then have it installed or install it yourself. The Bobby Heart stock is probably the cheaper way to go if you want a v block.

 

[kc0pph]

Well I looked around at some Pawn Shops and took a closer look at the actions that i was talking about. The actions are marred up pretty bad on the outside and the inside looks really bad as well, not sure if a good cleaning will do the job or not. I think im going to simplify my life a lot and just go buy a 700 ADL from Sportsmans Warehouse for 399 in the 300 RUM. This way the bolt face is perfect, and then to get it up and running i just need to re barrel it and replace the horrible fischer price stock. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[rscott5028]

+1
kc0pph
Two Different systems, I belive the video you are referring to is Darrell Holland building a tactical rifle using a v block bedded barrel, as far as I know this would have to be done by a gunsmith and looks expensive.

The other system is a v block for the action, the Bobby Heart stocks have the v block installed already. you can buy just the action v block from Whidden Gunworks then have it installed or install it yourself. The Bobby Heart stock is probably the cheaper way to go if you want a v block.

Darrel is a great smith. You may want to contact him.
Here's his website Holland's Gunsmithing & Shooters Supply
He can explain when/why he uses that particular type block. But, he also builds nice custom rifles like other's have discussed here.

The thing I haven't seen mentioned (didn't read the whole thread) is that a custom build can be a looooong process due to lead times for parts and availability of a reputable smith.

I'm not trying to sway you from a custom build. But if budget or time is a concern, there are factory and semi-custom rifles that may do the job for the same or lower cost.

You also don't want to forget to budget for good long range optics, range finder, anemometer, reloading equipment, components, range time, etc...

This is why many people start with a Remington Sendero or Savage LRPV, etc... Those rifles will be 95% of what you need and you can start shooting day 1 and customize as you go.

Good luck!
Richard

 

[Dano5001]

Well I looked around at some Pawn Shops and took a closer look at the actions that i was talking about. The actions are marred up pretty bad on the outside and the inside looks really bad as well, not sure if a good cleaning will do the job or not. I think im going to simplify my life a lot and just go buy a 700 ADL from Sportsmans Warehouse for 399 in the 300 RUM. This way the bolt face is perfect, and then to get it up and running i just need to re barrel it and replace the horrible fischer price stock. Thanks for all of your help.

I like that idea, good starting point, keep us posted on how you build goes.

 

[kc0pph]

Ok how about some specifics here now, enough with the less important things.

How does a 28" barrel with a Ross Break. Will 30" with the Ross make any difference? Possibly 32". I dont care about barrel length but would like to get the best preformance.

I am not worried about weight but i think a barrel needs a contour for asteics. (A weapon must shoot well, and not be a sore for the eye). What would be a good contour for the barrel, possibly directly below the Straight barrel.

Rifling (spelled wrong but then again i cant spell anyways): What would be a good twist rate, and number of grooves. I hear a lot of rage from a 5 groove but is that the way to go? Also the diamiter that will work best.

Also dumb question but does the barrel need the crown with a ross break (and im hoping it can be removable, not the crown silly). If so does Darryl Holland's 11 degree with the 65 degree work well or is there a new one.

I plan to have the chamber cut for 300 Gn Sierra MatchKings, and hoping that i can still run some Berger VLD's down and some lighter bullets just for fun.

In Reply to your post Richard a laser range finder is being developed by my father and is in the latter stages of testing. My Reloading bench consists of a RockChucker, Lyman Case Trimmer/tumbler, plus the accessories to make them all work. As for dies i will probably go with the pre made ones from Defensive edge unless someone can get them to me cheaper.

I have a Smith now who has put in a bid. I am thinking i will go with him. I believe it was just over 500 for: (but do not quote me)
BluePrinting/Lapping (175), Chambering/Crowning (175), Ross Break + Instalation (90) and a few other items.

200 Seems a bit steep for a bedding job and i may use a stock that does not need bedded, and then if i decide to do it, use the oozing JB Weld techneque.

Optics will be a Barska 4-16 x 50 That i have laying around. Its not the best but it is not being used and allows me to push more mula to the rifle. A scope is an easy addition at a later time.

 

[rscott5028]

In Reply to your post Richard a laser range finder is being developed by my father and is in the latter stages of testing.

A lot of folks here will be interested in the capabilities and price point of a better range finder. There are only a handful (Leica, Swaro, G7) that are suitable for real world LRH. And, they are very pricey.

Shawn Carlock has provided fairly detailed descriptions in several articles relative to many of the parts/specs that go into his ELRH rifles. The "secret sauce" is in the details of how it gets built.

-- richard