Help me decide: Minimum caliber for larger NA game

[docdempster65]

7mm-0i8 Remington is 7 x 57 Mauser on steroids and for
shorter actions. Nothing in North AMerica itr willnot handle though I shou;ld
back up on Kodiak and Polar Bears!
Doc Dempster

 

[WildRose]

7mm-0i8 Remington is 7 x 57 Mauser on steroids and for
shorter actions. Nothing in North AMerica itr willnot handle though I shou;ld
back up on Kodiak and Polar Bears!
Doc Dempster

With a perfect shot at 10 yards you can also kill an elephant with the old 6.5x55 but that doesn't mean it isn't a very anemic cartridge for long range shooting/hunting.

Neither has the energy to be anywhere near as effective as the mor popular 6.5's and 7mm's such as the .264wm and 7RM.

If you're never going to shoot a deer beyond 200 yards the 7mm-08 is a great little round but it is totally outperformed by half a dozen or more 7mm's in every way.

 

[Kimber7man]

With a perfect shot at 10 yards you can also kill an elephant with the old 6.5x55 but that doesn't mean it isn't a very anemic cartridge for long range shooting/hunting.

Neither has the energy to be anywhere near as effective as the mor popular 6.5's and 7mm's such as the .264wm and 7RM.

If you're never going to shoot a deer beyond 200 yards the 7mm-08 is a great little round but it is totally outperformed by half a dozen or more 7mm's in every way.

Cmon, man, you're just trolling with that one.
All of them use 25% to 100% more powder than the 7mm08.
I'm sure others like @Pharmsales can post more kills
Dead elk, 1 shot, 370 yards with the 7mm GLR (Great Little Round)

 

[WildRose]

Cmon, man, you're just trolling with that one.
All of them use 25% to 100% more powder than the 7mm08.
I'm sure others like @Pharmsales can post more kills
Dead elk, 1 shot, 370 yards with the 7mm GLR (Great Little Round)

View attachment 346816

I don't troll. If you can't discuss things like an adult don't engage me at all.

The amount of powder is irrelevant, the fact is it's rather anemic compared to those I mentioned.

You can only do so much with a 308 case, I know as I've been shooting and loading them for over 35 years.

My .260's would be adequate for an elk at those ranges but that doesn't make them a solid choice for LR on larger animals like elk.

It's a fine round for what it was designed and intended for and that doesn't include long range hunting.

 

[Veteran]

I don't troll. If you can't discuss things like an adult don't engage me at all.

The amount of powder is irrelevant, the fact is it's rather anemic compared to those I mentioned.

You can only do so much with a 308 case, I know as I've been shooting and loading them for over 35 years.

My .260's would be adequate for an elk at those ranges but that doesn't make them a solid choice for LR on larger animals like elk.

It's a fine round for what it was designed and intended for and that doesn't include long range hunting.

Max Effective range of .308 for military purposes 875 yards.

Its definitely not a 1000 yard weapon w ethics.... Many better choices for hunting big game over
say 500 to 600 yards for sure.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Max Effective range of .308 for military purposes 875 yards.

Its definitely not a 1000 yard weapon w ethics.... Many better choices for hunting big game over
say 500 to 600 yards for sure.

Beware of the man with only one rifle. That statement has more meaning than most will admit today. It's all about the latest and greatest cartridge these days. The mentality that "It must be better" has taken over. Much better bullets and powders offer the best performance with all cartridges these days. Today's 280 is yesterday's 7mm mag for the reloader. Every cartridge has it's limitations for sure as does the guy behind it. I do feel too many feel they need to jump into magnums in cases where they aren't needed. Shoot what makes YOU confident, not what makes other people approve of that choice.

 

[Swamplord]

Beware of the man with only one rifle. That statement has more meaning than most will admit today.

Agreed ! back in the day it meant something ... Today... it means the guy with only one rifle is a gundummy ...

 

[VLD Pilot]

Agreed ! back in the day it meant something ... Today... it means the guy with only one rifle is a gundummy ...

For sure

 

[WildRose]

Max Effective range of .308 for military purposes 875 yards.

Its definitely not a 1000 yard weapon w ethics.... Many better choices for hunting big game over
say 500 to 600 yards for sure.

With a military round it's effective if you take the enemy off the field even with a minor wound.

We're trying to do better than that hunting game.

 

[Veteran]

Yep. I agree. I personally wouldnt be hunting elk w a .308 at all, and not deer more than 500 yards.

Id want more knock down energy for elk, in a heavier bullet than .308 can generally shoot for much distance.

Thats just me. I think there are better options available.

 

[packgoatguy]

Besides choosing the right bullet for the job, and being capable of the accuracy needed to put the bullet where it will make the quickest most ethical kill... the math that I use to determine the optimal cartridge for the job is a combination of velocity, energy, and bullet shape. I believe this quantifies as many of the physical bullet and flight characteristics as possible.

What it comes down to is the range you intend to hunt a particular species at...

a 308 winchester with a 180gr bullet will have roughly the same mass and velocity at 300 yards that a 30 06 has at 400 yards with the same bullet... that the 300 win mag has at 500 yards with the same bullet... that the 300 rum has at 600 yards with the same bullet. Certainly they will all get the job done at 200 yards, but a cartridge pushing that 180gr bullet faster at the muzzle will have greater retained energy and velocity (and killing power) by the time it reaches targets further out.

For me, I use the following rules of thumb:

For deer sized animals, when the bullet reaches its target at my max range, I want it to still have at least;
1) 2000 feet per second of velocity
2) 1200 foot pounds of energy
3) a "25" rank on the KPS (killing power score)

For elk sized Critters; on target I want;
1) min 2000 feet per second retained velocity
2) min 1500 foot pounds of energy on target
3) a "35" rank on the KPS scale

KPS is calculated as;

Energy at a given yardage x bullet sectional density x bullet frontal area.

This allows me to compare otherwise dissimilar bullet/cartridge options in an apples to apples way.

Spoiler alert, at least by my math, if I'm hunting elk or bigger, I want to be in 300win/300wsm/7rem/28nos territory beyond 600 yards. That's not to say a 6.5cm with the right bullet placement couldn't get the job done... but for me I like a bullet/cartridge combo that packs enough of a wallop that even if a young shooter behind one of my rifles misjudged the wind a tad, or made some other error, that even a slightly less than perfect shot will still get the job done quickly and humanely. For me, it's about a margin of error to account for real world hunting conditions.

 

[Veteran]

Besides choosing the right bullet for the job, and being capable of the accuracy needed to put the bullet where it will make the quickest most ethical kill... the math that I use to determine the optimal cartridge for the job is a combination of velocity, energy, and bullet shape. I believe this quantifies as many of the physical bullet and flight characteristics as possible.

What it comes down to is the range you intend to hunt a particular species at...

a 308 winchester with a 180gr bullet will have roughly the same mass and velocity at 300 yards that a 30 06 has at 400 yards with the same bullet... that the 300 win mag has at 500 yards with the same bullet... that the 300 rum has at 600 yards with the same bullet. Certainly they will all get the job done at 200 yards, but a cartridge pushing that 180gr bullet faster at the muzzle will have greater retained energy and velocity (and killing power) by the time it reaches targets further out.

For me, I use the following rules of thumb:

For deer sized animals, when the bullet reaches its target at my max range, I want it to still have at least;
1) 2000 feet per second of velocity
2) 1200 foot pounds of energy
3) a "25" rank on the KPS (killing power score)

For elk sized Critters; on target I want;
1) min 2000 feet per second retained velocity
2) min 1500 foot pounds of energy on target
3) a "35" rank on the KPS scale

KPS is calculated as;

Energy at a given yardage x bullet sectional density x bullet frontal area.

This allows me to compare otherwise dissimilar bullet/cartridge options in an apples to apples way.

Spoiler alert, at least by my math, if I'm hunting elk or bigger, I want to be in 300win/300wsm/7rem/28nos territory beyond 600 yards. That's not to say a 6.5cm with the right bullet placement couldn't get the job done... but for me I like a bullet/cartridge combo that packs enough of a wallop that even if a young shooter behind one of my rifles misjudged the wind a tad, or made some other error, that even a slightly less than perfect shot will still get the job done quickly and humanely. For me, it's about a margin of error to account for real world hunting conditions.

Well thought, well organized, and well explained. Bravo!

 

[WildRose]

Well thought, well organized, and well explained. Bravo!

Add bullet construction to that equation and you have a winner.

 

[Tidus56]

I don't have the endurance to read through 23 pages of this but lf I were to answer the OPs question I would go 280 AI or 7SAUM. The recoil is plenty light and the cartridges are plenty capable. However this would be my minimum, I would go bigger but if recoil is an issue(it is for me too) then a 280 AI will be just right.