Help me decide: Minimum caliber for larger NA game

[dgascho]

I would say don't waste your money on a .308 when you already have a 6.5creed, way too much overlap there. The 6.5creed actually overtakes the .308 in energy past around 3-400yds. Also, the higher BC of 6.5 bullets make long range shooting so much easier with less bullet drop and less wind drift.

I would also steer you away from the 300wsm. The short overall length of the cartridge limits the bullet length you can typically shoot. The shorter .308 bullets have a lower BC, which is contradictory to what you are looking for.

300prc or 300wm are great choices for your needs.

This is probably a separate topic for a different thread, but another factor is if one maintains velocity/energy better in a shorter barrel. Already having a long-barrel/heavy 6.5 creed, I'm good for bench or pleasure shooting and deer-sized game and smaller out to distances farther than I hunt. Most likely any scenario where I "need" a bigger caliber will be inside 500yd. My plan eventually is to figure out the sweet spot between compact/foldable stock/short barrel + suppressor that I can shove in a backpack. I would like to get down to 18" barrel, but realize you start giving up all the benefit of these rounds if you go too short, so thought maybe I could get away with a 20" barrel? I'm guessing the differences are negligible, but I thought maybe a short magnum with more cross-sectional powder burn rate would suffer less in a shorter barrel?

Completely different topic, and may not even be the same gun as my original question, just throwing out a scenario where the 300 wsm might have some pros?

 

[Yuktuk]

This is probably a separate topic for a different thread, but another factor is if one maintains velocity/energy better in a shorter barrel. Already having a long-barrel/heavy 6.5 creed, I'm good for bench or pleasure shooting and deer-sized game and smaller out to distances farther than I hunt. Most likely any scenario where I "need" a bigger caliber will be inside 500yd. My plan eventually is to figure out the sweet spot between compact/foldable stock/short barrel + suppressor that I can shove in a backpack. I would like to get down to 18" barrel, but realize you start giving up all the benefit of these rounds if you go too short, so thought maybe I could get away with a 20" barrel? I'm guessing the differences are negligible, but I thought maybe a short magnum with more cross-sectional powder burn rate would suffer less in a shorter barrel?

Completely different topic, and may not even be the same gun as my original question, just throwing out a scenario where the 300 wsm might have some pros?

I think your short barrel logic is spot on. If you are looking for a barrel under 20", I don't think there is any cartridge that retains as much velocity/inch, or efficiency as the 308 Winchester.

 

[WildRose]

This is probably a separate topic for a different thread, but another factor is if one maintains velocity/energy better in a shorter barrel. Already having a long-barrel/heavy 6.5 creed, I'm good for bench or pleasure shooting and deer-sized game and smaller out to distances farther than I hunt. Most likely any scenario where I "need" a bigger caliber will be inside 500yd. My plan eventually is to figure out the sweet spot between compact/foldable stock/short barrel + suppressor that I can shove in a backpack. I would like to get down to 18" barrel, but realize you start giving up all the benefit of these rounds if you go too short, so thought maybe I could get away with a 20" barrel? I'm guessing the differences are negligible, but I thought maybe a short magnum with more cross-sectional powder burn rate would suffer less in a shorter barrel?

Completely different topic, and may not even be the same gun as my original question, just throwing out a scenario where the 300 wsm might have some pros?

With the .308 and similar cases you're talking about rounds specifically designed for Military rifles so they are optimized for the 16-20" bbls. Powder choices when loading make a bigger difference in these rounds as far as what you can gain in velocity with a longer barrel with slower burning powders giving you an increase but with the limited case volume available your net gain is minimal.

 

[COBigJohn]

If I wanted a .308 Win for my hunting gun, I would buy a light, compact with 20" barrel.

20" is my huckleberry..... Specifically, I shopped for a 20" bench gun... when most want 26" and 28".... or even 30" on their bench guns. I shoot 185gr Bergers and a 20" barrel is optimal. 2" or 4" more really gains you nothing.

===============================================

Barrel 150 gr. 180 gr.

24" 2745 2532

23" 2732 2524

22" 2686 2481

21" 2774 2501

20" 2732 2514

19" 2701 2460

18" 2701 2445

Source: https://tacticalgunreview.com/best-barrel-length-for-308-rifle/

 

[Subzero]

I am fully aware of it and simply making a general statement that a .300 WSM is no slouch. HSM loads the Bergers in 210 (2922 FPS), 185 (3132 FPS), and 168 (3193 FPS).

Those numbers seemed very fast, and I was wondering if I had underestimated the 300WSM, so I checked out the HSM website.
Looks like you mixed up 300WSM with the mighty 300wm . The velocity numbers listed for 300WSM are: 210 (2,760 FPS), 185 (2,991FPS), 168 (3,109) which seems more realistic. I couldn't figure out what length barrel they used for these velocities, but I would guess 24" to 26".

By Caliber - HSM Ammunition

By Caliber

hsmammunition.com

Not trying to start anything, just providing the OP with accurate data.

 

[FEENIX]

Those numbers seemed very fast, and I was wondering if I had underestimated the 300WSM, so I checked out the HSM website.
Looks like you mixed up 300WSM with the mighty 300wm . The velocity numbers listed for 300WSM are: 210 (2,760 FPS), 185 (2,991FPS), 168 (3,109) which seems more realistic. I couldn't figure out what length barrel they used for these velocities, but I would guess 24" to 26".

By Caliber - HSM Ammunition

By Caliber

hsmammunition.com

Not trying to start anything, just providing the OP with accurate data.

Yep, it's my bad; the numbers I provided were .300 WMs instead of .300 WSMs. Even with the correct numbers you provided, they are still no slouch. For my unwritten rule, they are still 800-1000+ yards elk/deer capable.

 

[Montucky Roamer]

.30 caliber will do.

 

[AZ82New]

I had a similar thought process. I ended up picking 280ai. Here's why:

1. With bullet weights 145 and under, it shoots the same….or even faster than….the 7mag. At least according to Barnes load data.

2. With 160-175 weight bullets, it's as near as naked no difference to a 7mag. Like within 100 fps.

Who would argue that a 7mag isn't capable of all North American game? Excluding possibly the big bears.

I have no plans to shoot big bears.

Above is the standard logic that used to to arrive at the 280 AI.

Fortunately, I was very pleased to discover that it essentially matches the 270 Weatherby and 257 Weatherby ballistically.

My 120 TTSX load hits just shy of 3500 fps without pressure signs.

-meets or beats a 257 Weatherby-

My 131 (133) Hammer Hunter load hits 3400 FPS without pressure.

-gives up virtually nothing to 270 Weatherby with a 129 LRX-

Yes, the sectional density with those same calibers will be higher in those bullet weights. However, I am of the belief that copper bullets will penetrate perfectly well in those lighter bullet weights. In fact, I believe they may just perform optimally in higher velocities.

Essentially, with strategic reloading, you cover a HUGE gammet of possible cartridges with the 280ai.

The cherry on the top is that it likes Ramshot Hunter powder. I can buy it, even in this climate, for $26 a pound at the ace hardware down the street.

I can also buy Barnes and Hammer bullets.

Therefore, I see no advantage to other calibers right now. I'm actually having a second 280ai built. I was thinking about 270 Weatherby or 7saum. Neith of those two have any real advantage to the ackley and the powders and bullets I would need to source, if I even could, would only be a marginal improvement at best.

To step up from here power wise, I would need to go to a 300 magnum of some sort. Someday I might, because I like to buy stuff I don't really need.

So, I get exceptional barrel life, stellar long range energy (I define long range as 600 yards) and low recoil. I also get Weatherby magnum ballistics if I want -or- long range high bc retained energy. Best of both worlds.

As far as buying a factory rifle. I wouldn't do it. I purchased my particular rifle, a fully custom build, used in the forums. I paid 1700 bucks for it with a viper PST scope. A perfectly good scope for my purposes. This rifle is THOUSANDS of dollars better than the Howa 6.5 creed that bought for $1100 and then put a $1,300 Leupold scope on.

ABSOLUTELY no comparison. Not even the same universe.

So now, I'm selling the Howa and having that same Gunsmith build me a 280ai to the exact specs I want…..custom action, McMillan stock etc. that will cost $3,200 and I'll put a $2,000 scope on it. So I'll be in over 5k. The reality is that it will shoot only slightly better than my 1700 rifle but the heart wants what the heart wants.

 

[COBigJohn]

....but the heart wants what the heart wants.

I have that 'heart problem' myself.

I promised my brain that I would only purchase a long range bench rifle this year... and that is all. But my heart got in the way and I have now purchased three rifles and two pistols since Jan. 1.

 

[xsn10s]

Add a break or suppressor and 30-06, 7RM are two that pop up in my mind. Simple, effective for your requirements.

Question: Lightest recoiling caliber, available in a gun model that is somewhat adjustable, at least minimally capable of ethical moose/bear shot at 300 yds?

I'm gonna go with Bob here on the 30-06 or 7 RM. Heck at 300 yards and under I cannot see why a 308 win couldn't do the job either if we're talking about black bears. Otherwise I'd make it easy and go with a 30-06.

 

[dgascho]

Amazed at the response on this forum. Asked a question, expected to get a lot of "newb, do ur own research" responses. Here, 18 pages later, a lot of valuable information. I really appreciate the input.

 

[WildRose]

Amazed at the response on this forum. Asked a question, expected to get a lot of "newb, do ur own research" responses. Here, 18 pages later, a lot of valuable information. I really appreciate the input.

For the most part, this isn't that kind of forum.

I still think the 7RM, 300wm, or even better 300PRC ticks all your boxes.

Put a good brake on it if it doesn't come with one from the factory and go have fun.

If you want to do a lot of high volume plinking/target/varmint shooting pick up a 6.5CM or .260 Remington and you'll be gunned up for the next century.

 

[Veteran]

I have that 'heart problem' myself.

I promised my brain that I would only purchase a long range bench rifle this year... and that is all. But my heart got in the way and I have now purchased three rifles and two pistols since Jan. 1.

Your sick with long term covetrifleitis......

 

[ed209clark]

300 RUM as mentioned does most everything with a change of readily available projectiles. The 338 Edge or 338 RUM would be my other choices because I already have them, bring enough gun and/or use proper bullet placement. I've taken whitetail to 600 yards with a 270 win and 7mm-08 too… but not for toothy critters(338rum 250gr a-frame @2900fps)