HELP ! Cold bore vs Warm in Hunting Rifle

[Radman]

I smiled when I read Old rooster's post. I have 2 Savages snd a Marlin, all of which shoot like lasers AFTER the first shot AFTER having been cleaned.
In other words they seem to like a light copper fouling.....up to a point. (Never figured out exactly where that point is as I rarely shoot more than 10 practice shots per outing) I'm just saying...

 

[Old Rooster]

Radman a local gunsmith told a few folks close to quitting time he recently had a customer to bring a rifle in to see why it now shoots 2 inch groups.The gunsmith used his Hawkeye borescope and said it is now a smooth bore rifle completely full of copper.
The shooter said he runs a bore snake through it every now and then but has never cleaned the rifle.
Even more so on an inexpensive rifle like the Venture he said they need a GOOD cleaning as the barrel is often rough as a cobb and even though they shoot great groups they gather copper more than a more expensive rifle.
I like my Venture but I admit it does take more time to keep the copper out but the gunsmith said as it gets older it may gather copper less as it gets a little more smoothed out with use.
Just my gunsmiths 2 cents
Old Rooster

 

[Radman]

Radman a local gunsmith told a few folks close to quitting time he recently had a customer to bring a rifle in to see why it now shoots 2 inch groups.The gunsmith used his Hawkeye borescope and said it is now a smooth bore rifle completely full of copper.
The shooter said he runs a bore snake through it every now and then but has never cleaned the rifle.
Even more so on an inexpensive rifle like the Venture he said they need a GOOD cleaning as the barrel is often rough as a cobb and even though they shoot great groups they gather copper more than a more expensive rifle.
I like my Venture but I admit it does take more time to keep the copper out but the gunsmith said as it gets older it may gather copper less as it gets a little more smoothed out with use.
Just my gunsmiths 2 cents
Old Rooster

 

[Radman]

Understood. While I know that my rifle shoots better after a "fouling shot" I still clean it after I shoot it, whether it is one shot or 20. I have both read about and seen how some barrels barely accumulate any copper while others seem to actually shave it off bullets. The quality of the firearm itself does not seem to make a difference. Some really accumulated it in a hurry while others do not. A friend has a very expensive pistol and while it shoots great - it loads up something fierce. He sent it back to the factory once and they assured him there was absolutely nothing wrong with it, (and I don't believe there is). I have heard that it is tooling but I really think there are other factors. IMO It's not a bad thing or a good thing, it is just something to be aware of. If it's a shooter and you clean it....enjoy it! As all of us here knows EVERY gun is different and has a prrsonality. They all certainlyhave their own likes and dislikes in ammo. I enjoyed your post Old roooster.

 

[jfloyd]

I would agree with most all of these suggestions. Cleaning for sure especially on a new factory barrel, checking mounts and scope, bedding, etc. However, I do have to ask if you shot any other load through it just to see what happened? Lots of weird things can happen but seems like weird stuff is more common when you are outside the normal load parameters so your reduced load could still be the culprit. Might be worth trying a different load if the problem continues is all I'm suggesting.

 

[emp1953]

Every rifle I own except a Browning T-bolt 22LR likes to be shot dirty. So I clean them up good after hunting season or a session at the range then shoot a fouling shot or 2 through them before the next hunting season or at the range. I have an old Savage 99C in .243 that likes clean or dirty.

 

[Radman]

Every rifle I own except a Browning T-bolt 22LR likes to be shot dirty. So I clean them up good after hunting season or a session at the range then shoot a fouling shot or 2 through them before the next hunting season or at the range. I have an old Savage 99C in .243 that likes clean or dirty.

emp1953 I would have scoffed at this 3 years ago but from what I have learned first-hand shooting so often the past 3 years I fully believe you.

 

[bubbaonpc]

I would agree with most all of these suggestions. Cleaning for sure especially on a new factory barrel, checking mounts and scope, bedding, etc. However, I do have to ask if you shot any other load through it just to see what happened? Lots of weird things can happen but seems like weird stuff is more common when you are outside the normal load parameters so your reduced load could still be the culprit. Might be worth trying a different load if the problem continues is all I'm suggesting.

Hum?? Now thats something I had not thought of. The only bullets ever fired in this gun have been SST's. Another aspect to look into. Thanks

 

[DJ Fergus]

What's going on? First shot out of my cold hunting rifle is PERFECT. Inch and a half high at 100 yards. The next shots, 2-3-4-5 are high right and about a 3-4 inch group. I can let the rifle sit, pick it up cold the next day and PERFECT shot, next shots are high right. I've changed nothing from last year. Same powder, same box of bullets, primer, brass ect. I even double checked OGIVE. I've heard of "one shot rifles"...but it was perfect last year. I'm not on the edge of twist rate...bullet weight...but I am shooting Reduced Loads for Wife. 1-10 twist .308, 165 gr RL15 41gr at 2500 FPS, .02 off lands. I would think "SCOPE" if it wasnt dead on when cold the next day. Any Thoughts ?

Cold bore shot like that is common, I'm not saying it's right or desirable. You can figure it into how you are going take your shots. I don't know the answer. I have reasearched it alot. And if you deeply reasearch it, you will find that no one agrees and there's no hard & fast answers. I have tuned it out with charge weights and seating depth in some rifles. Some one is now going come along and say it's not possible to tune it out, and it's true that you can't always tune it out. It boils down to how much time you want to put into it. You can try running cooler burning powders. Some folks say it's got to do with bedding or micro expansion of metals, the list can go on and on. I wish I could tell you a definite answer or that it could definitely be resolved. If it bugs you bad enough, you will find a resolution to it eventually.

 

[bubbaonpc]

* UPDATE *
Thanks to all ! After purchasing a Bore Camera and Copper Cleaning 6 times, my last patch came out as white as it went in. I took the rifle apart, I removed the scope, Rings and Base, along with the stock. I started from scratch. LocTite all screws to factory inch lbs. Checked OGIVE, opened new can of powder...bullets...primers..brass. 5 shots at about 2.5". While barrel was warm, I put another 5 down range...1.5" (getting better) I allowed barrel to cool and put 3 in a cloverleaf and the other 2 within 3/4". The ole girl is shooting again !!! I'm sure with a little tinkering, it will go back to making one big hole. THANK YOU LRH crew ! I would have never thought the rifle needed a good copper cleaning after so "FEW" shots. Y'all saved the day !
P.S. a few times I "felt" it was clean, but after running the bore camera down, I realized it wasn't clean...I cleaned it 2 more times before it looked good. Guys, that lil $39 Amazon's Choice camera is worth every penny. I've never used a "High Dollar" camera, so I can't compare $39 vs $500...but I'm happy with it. If ya don't have a Bore Cam...grab ya one..I was shocked by what it looks like inside and how much better I cleaned after seeing it.

 

[Radman]

I don't see the issue...your rifle has a cold barrel shot...that happens to be perfect. Cold barrel deviation is a thing. I know the argument that "it's not a cold barrel, it's a cold shooter" that causes deviation and sure...but as far as internal ballistics are concerned some rifles have cold barrel shot deviations. The only concern is the 3-4 inch group. Did you get a SD an ES on this load?

Lots of wisdom (& experience) in your words. I zero lots of rifles for many close friends. Although I always clean their barrels before I begin, I never clean their barrels after I'm finished! This is so that it will shoot exactly the same for them that it did for me. I've never had a complaint. While I do this for free, (they supply their own ammo), I will not send their rifle home to them unless it is in a hard case, even if I have to loan them one of my own. (Of course this opens a new can of worms.... : )

 

[cohunt]

i wonder if people check the dates on posts sometimes, oh well--I know I have fell victim to this a time or two

 

[Old Rooster]

I've done it a time or two also cohunt.
Sometimes I read older posts about everything and and anything and something clicks for me and I write it down.
I pray all is well with this virus going around.
Stay healthy friends!
Old Rooster

 

[NW Hunter]

Thanks to all for replies ! I should have been more specific about rifle. It's a T/C Venture .308 purchased 26 months back... this is a Hunting Rifle Only..((I'm sure that goes without saying)) Year one and two were nail driving, 5 shots touching at 100 yards, happy camper. Bout once a week during deer season, I run a clean dry patch through it and at end of season I run an oily patch, then a dry patch until clean and put her away. This year I pulled her out, and a perfect shot #1...the next 4 were dismal, high and right and not grouping. Next day, cold barrel, I again pulled a reload left from last year and a Perfect shot...the next 4 went high right, no grouping. I double checked OGIVE and all the reloads were dead on and nothing has changed in the throat...still same OGIVE. I did open a new box of SST's, but I rechecked OGIVE. I use an old sled, that telescopes in the middle, which allows me to place forearm on front rest and the rear sits just behind the grip and my shoulder touches butt plate, just like everyone holds their rifle free hand. I put very little weight on front rest and there are no "tie downs" holding barrel. After firing, there is no adjustment to sled, other than sliding it left/right..the horizontal remains on Bullseye. I know its not me, as I had 4 other rifles to shoot and make sure scopes were good after sitting 10 months...the rest were home runs, all sub MOA at 100. Maybe I need to put another 50 rounds through it or check on a Wood Stock. My 17HH and .204 Ruger are nail drivers, but they get shot 100's of times a month...maybe it's just not broke in ????

Have you removed your stock yet?
You may have got something wedged in the barrel channel after hunting with it. After the first shot warms up the barrel, the barrel may be touching and not free floating.
It's easy to look.