Help!! Berger seating depth, distance to lands??

[huntforfood]

Use this method. Find hard jam then back off from there. I understand how engineers think. I have worked with them for 35 years. Your overthinking this. Fyi there is increasing evidence that seating out from the lands a good bit more forgiving. What you need is a reference point to work from. Let the rifle tell you what it likes. If your .020 off or .060 off it doesnt matter. What matters is the results on target.

Bullet Jump Research: Executive Summary & Load Development Tips

This is the last post in a series of articles focused on bullet jump research that has been conduct...

precisionrifleblog.com

watch the video, very helpful.

 

[William W.]

Have you used the Hornady case gauge with their special cases?

 

[L.Sherm]

So I will admit, I just had to look up the wheeler method. Holy crap thats a ridiculous amount of work to find a number that really means nothing toward the end result.

I guess Alex and alot of other BR shooters it means nothing, to each his own.

 

[wnc-coyote]

I have watched eriks video. Pretty much what I have been doing for years. Only difference is I normally just load a bullet in an empty case with base of the bullet near the neck/shoulder junction. Load in chamber if it doesn't jam i start seating depth testing. If it jams i seat .020 deeper till it doesn't then start testing. Most of my rifles were limited to mag length so I never cared where the lands were. Eriks method will work at any length. You do not have to know where the lands are. You just need to your cbto of where you started and move back from there.

 

[KsKevin]

So I will admit, I just had to look up the wheeler method. Holy crap thats a ridiculous amount of work to find a number that really means nothing toward the end result.

Haha... I did it. Completely dissembled my bolt (Rem700 style), removed firing pin & ejector pin, inched my way along to find the kiss.... indeed, took a while. Now I know where 'kiss' is but after this thread, will likely never do anything based on kiss depth

 

[wnc-coyote]

I agree. I might be wrong but the method i explained has works for every rifle I have loaded for. Because even after all that work you still have to do seating depth testing. If there was a standard seating depth of the land that worked. I would do it. There is not. Every rifle is different. Every one I have loaded for will have multiple diff depth nodes that come and go every .01-.02 thou. I don't do the .04 .09 .12 or what ever it is because you will typically jump right over several nodes as you do this.

 

[TAWS]

Guys I apologize for butting in but this thread is most interesting to me as i am dealing with a 280 AC imp and would someone, and I hate to sound ignorant, but what is the Wheeler method? I think it has to do with the hard jam, and go deeper from there. Please explain.

 

[wnc-coyote]

Wrong thread

 

[TAWS]

Yeah, thanks

 

[GLTaylor]

Guys I apologize for butting in but this thread is most interesting to me as i am dealing with a 280 AC imp and would someone, and I hate to sound ignorant, but what is the Wheeler method? I think it has to do with the hard jam, and go deeper from there. Please explain.

Look up Alex Wheeler. He has a video on how to find "0" jam in your chamber. He's a very good gunsmith and 1000 yd competitor

 

[rsbhunter]

I agree with the post about getting a Teslong bore scope and checking for a carbon "ring". Not to sound like a donkey, but everyone who owns a rifle should own a bore scope. For less than a box of top quality ammo, you have a instrument that answers SOOOOO many questions...And if you think you have your bore clean(without the use of bore paste or polish) buy a $5.00 bottle of CLR cleaner and run a couple soaked patches through it....be careful on blued rifles, but for carbon removal, nothing matches it. On carbon rings, coat a NYLON brush that fits the neck/lead area in CLR and spin by hand or slow speed drill. Then check with your TESLONG bore scope.....some powders are worse than others for creating carbon rings.....rsbhunter

 

[QuietTexan]

Every one I have loaded for will have multiple diff depth nodes that come and go every .01-.02 thou. I don't do the .04 .09 .12 or what ever it is because you will typically jump right over several nodes as you do this.

Remember that he is loading VLD-style secant ogive bullets. The longer jumps are because Berger, Cal Zandt, and others have data showing that secant ogive bullets can have a wider seating depth node when set to a longer jump. The goal of this method is to find a tolerant and longer lasting CBTO setting that doesn't need to be adjusted over the life of the barrel. The goal is not to find the closest node to the lands because those tend to be narrower and can move as the throat erodes. This is not a becnhrest technique, it's a PRC technique for higher round counts where throat erosion can be measured over the course of a single match. I use it with secant ogive hunting rounds because the longer jump tends to make it easier to achieve mag length loads and reduce the chance of sticking a bullet in the bore when extracting a live round.

The notion that minimal jump is best even for tangent ogive bullets has caused issues, and Nosler has gone so far as to put a technical note on their AccuBond Long Range page that states seating at SAAMI COL provides the best accuracy. There are several treads here lately where people can't get the ABLR to group set up tight to the lands. Being up close and moving in very small increments doesn't always work.

 

[rsbhunter]

In the original post, the member seemed to be asking more about WHY the distance to lands was getting shorter, rather than longer, as throat erosion does....would have me scratching my head as well.....I shoot a couple different 6mm Dasher, and know that Varget builds carbon rings...so much that I switched powders....rsbhunter

 

[jasonco]

"Chasing the lands is stupid" Erik Cortina Pro Shooter.

It doesn't matter, mostly, where jam is, just that once it is established that is the start point for seating depth, for that bullet.

or

Magazine length can be the jam and that's maximum seating depth.