Headspace adjustment with Shellholder??

[Magnum72576]

I have a 300 wm, Borden Timberline action. I recently watched the youtube video BROZ did on using the redding competition shell holder set to adjust headspace.

I removed the firing pin assembly from the bolt and followed the direction BROZ laid out.
Used a fired case. Ran it in my FL Sizer die with starting with the .01 shell holder. I used all 5 shell holders and the resistance felt the same with all of them. They all had more resistance than the bolt had with no shell in it. I'm not sure what to do now?????

Any ideas what I did wrong.

Thanks Tony

 

[jimbires]

here is another thread on doing this . I have not watched Broz's video , I have watched Alex's .

http://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/finding-your-lands-and-sizing-brass-video.190042/

 

[bigedp51]

I have a 300 wm, Borden Timberline action. I recently watched the youtube video BROZ did on using the redding competition shell holder set to adjust headspace.

I removed the firing pin assembly from the bolt and followed the direction BROZ laid out.
Used a fired case. Ran it in my FL Sizer die with starting with the .01 shell holder. I used all 5 shell holders and the resistance felt the same with all of them. They all had more resistance than the bolt had with no shell in it. I'm not sure what to do now?????

Any ideas what I did wrong.

Thanks Tony

Your die might be pushing the shoulder back "more" than the + .010 competition shell holder. meaning you may need .012 or more air space gap between the shell holder and the bottom of the die.

Below start with a .020 feeler gauge between the shell holder and die and size a fired case and see if it chambers. If the bolt does not close then use a .018 and thinner until the bolt closes. If the bolt closes with the .020 feeler gauge then you will need to go thicker.

Before I got the competition shell holders I used the Skip shim kit that you could stack and have more than .010 setback for less shoulder bump. Before that I used feeler gauges like pictured above for less houlder bump.
Skip's die shim kit
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...es/skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14--prod33197.aspx
Bottom line many dies for rimmed and belted cases push the case shoulder back more than you would think was needed. And where a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge comes in handy to measure your fired cases and adjust the die.

Below a fired "rimmed" .303 British case in a Wilson case gauge, and the amount the case is sticking above the gauge is how much too far the die will push the shoulder back.

 

[blinderthanascope]

if you have a granite plate or glass on a flat surface you can sand the top of the shell holder by moving it across the substraight, rotating as you go then check with mic. they are hard so it takes a bit to do this, or you can buy a set of Whidden dies which has this feature built in to get your headspace, or you can turn a bit off the bottom of the die to increase shoulder bump, I usually just sand the shellholder on a substr and get the desired effect, or get a gunsmith or machine shop to take a bit off of the bottom of the die or the shellholder. hope this helps or ask Alex Wheeler he is the guru on this stuff jmho

 

[blinderthanascope]

you can use shims and put them between the case and the bottom of the shellholder bed in which the case sits in. I think lol

 

[blinderthanascope]

I have done the shim under the shell holder bed before but I could not get enough bump due to the shell holder hitting the bottom of the die, thus I went to sanding and got the desired effect, but it would be better to have it turned on a lathe just slightly faced off or a surface grinder. I do these thing because I have no lathe or surface grinder, kind of shadetree machinist but it works for me, concentricity prolly not the best

 

[FearNoWind]

{QUOTE] ... Any ideas what I did wrong [/QUOTE]

Yep. If you started with shell holder No. 1 you started at the wrong end of the routine. Check the video (Broz tells you the correct method) or read the instructions that come with the set.

 

[rcoody]

what is wrong with adjusting your sizing die for the proper shoulder bump?

it has always worked for me.

use a forster coax with no shellholder. adjust the die and lock the lock ring down and i don't mess with it again.

 

[Magnum72576]

{QUOTE] ... Any ideas what I did wrong

Yep. If you started with shell holder No. 1 you started at the wrong end of the routine. Check the video (Broz tells you the correct method) or read the instructions that come with the set.[/QUOTE]

FearNoWind
I did start with the correct holder. It's a .010 which Jeff calls the 10. The set has 5 shellholers .01,.008, .006,.004,.002.
Tony

 

[bigedp51]

Magnun72576
Below I'm measuring a "fired" .223/5.56 Lake City case and then used the +.004 competition shell holder for .003 shoulder bump for my AR15 rifle.

Rimmed and belted cases are from a older age when shoulder location was not critical. Even today the new unfired Remington .303 British case below has the shoulder location much shorter than chamber shoulder location.

Chambers and dies vary in size and you need to measure a fired case for shoulder location and adjust the die accordingly for proper shoulder set back. You could just neck size only until you feel resistance closing the bolt, this will give you a better idea of the shoulder location of the chamber. Then set the die for .001 to .002 shoulder bump.

Again get a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure a fire case. It sounds like with even the +.010 shell holder your die pushed the case shoulder back too far.

Normally with the +.010 shell holder the case shoulder would be squeezed forward when sized and the case would end up "LONGER" than the chamber. My WAG to your problem is you have a long chamber and a short die that is pushing the shoulder back too far.

NOTE, I have a Lee .223 full length die if using a standard shell holder that will push the case shoulder back .009 shorter than my .223 GO gauge. So again dies and chambers vary in size and nothing is written in stone.

 

[LaHunter]

Magnum, if I read your OP correctly, you are saying that the shoulder is not getting pushed back far enough with any of the Redding Competition shell holders. I am assuming you are making sure to get solid contact with the die and the shell holder at the end of the stroke. This is important when using these shell holders. Here is what I would do:
1) measure the head space of a fired brass from your rifle. The Hornady Lock n Load kit is what I use and it works well for me.
2) compare the headspace measurement from your various sized brass to the unsized fired brass. The sized brass should all be shorter. If not, then just use the standard shell holder that probably came with your press.
3) Sometimes, if you are not getting the brass into the die far enough at the top of the press stroke, the base area of the brass may not be getting re sized properly.

What press and die are you using and what case lube are you using?

What neck lube are you using.

I highly recommend the graphite neck lube.
Sometimes, when the expander ball is pulled back out of the brass, it can pull on the neck too much and reshape the shoulder and cause fit issues in the rifle chamber. The graphite neck lube eliminates this.

Hope this helps.

 

[blinderthanascope]

royal wax lube on a qtip inside the nk and you won't even feel it on the button imho

 

[Magnum72576]

Magnum, if I read your OP correctly, you are saying that the shoulder is not getting pushed back far enough with any of the Redding Competition shell holders. I am assuming you are making sure to get solid contact with the die and the shell holder at the end of the stroke. This is important when using these shell holders. Here is what I would do:
1) measure the head space of a fired brass from your rifle. The Hornady Lock n Load kit is what I use and it works well for me.
2) compare the headspace measurement from your various sized brass to the unsized fired brass. The sized brass should all be shorter. If not, then just use the standard shell holder that probably came with your press.
3) Sometimes, if you are not getting the brass into the die far enough at the top of the press stroke, the base area of the brass may not be getting re sized properly.

What press and die are you using and what case lube are you using?

What neck lube are you using.

I highly recommend the graphite neck lube.
Sometimes, when the expander ball is pulled back out of the brass, it can pull on the neck too much and reshape the shoulder and cause fit issues in the rifle chamber. The graphite neck lube eliminates this.

Hope this helps.

Ill try and answer some of these question.
Rockchucker press. I have contact between the shell holder and the dies. I'm 1/4 turn past contact. I use RCBS case lube and use the nylon brush with a little lube for the inside of the neck. I have forster FL sizer die and micrometer seater.
I must be missing something here.
Tony

 

[Magnum72576]

here is another thread on doing this . I have not watched Broz's video , I have watched Alex's .

http://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/finding-your-lands-and-sizing-brass-video.190042/[/QUOTE