Hammer bullets WTH

[Petey308]

You can fill the cavity with something like beeswax to provide the effect the oil had on terminal performance, without the negatives of the oil. The wax will also work better overall since it won't just run out or vaporize in flight like the oil did/does.

It may be worth experimenting with at least the some of you.

 

[Korhil78]

You can fill the cavity with something like beeswax to provide the effect the oil had on terminal performance, without the negatives of the oil. The wax will also work better overall since it won't just run out or vaporize in flight like the oil did/does.

It may be worth experimenting with at least the some of you.

Pete,

You don't think the beeswax will melt in flight and do that same thing as the oil? Like how Hornady had to change their tips? Or is that all BS lol

 

[Petey308]

Pete,

You don't think the beeswax will melt in flight and do that same thing as the oil? Like how Hornady had to change their tips? Or is that all BS lol

Yes, you will lose some, but if you pack it in, there will still be enough to do its job.

And as far as the tips melting, that's a thing, but it was only deformation, not melting away completely. And that had more of an effect on aerodynamics. They definitely marketed that whole thing well though lol. Some amazing breakthrough lol. Meanwhile many other companies were already using acetyl resin in their polymer tips to prevent the melting and deformation in flight, or using metal tips.

And yes, the beeswax is a crutch and not a real true feasible solution in my opinion. It will have an affect on aerodynamics as well and is not something I'd want to mess with for long range work, that's for sure.

Like I said, it might be something worth testing for some guys. Some need not bother, or shouldn't, depending on their needs. There are other bullet options out there that don't need such things.

 

[ButterBean]

Yes, you will lose some, but if you pack it in, there will still be enough to do its job.

And as far as the tips melting, that's a thing, but it was only deformation, not melting away completely. And that had more of an effect on aerodynamics. They definitely marketed that whole thing well though lol. Some amazing breakthrough lol. Meanwhile many other companies were already using acetyl resin in their polymer tips to prevent the melting and deformation in flight, or using metal tips.

And yes, the beeswax is a crutch and not a real true feasible solution in my opinion. It will have an affect on aerodynamics as well and is not something I'd want to mess with for long range work, that's for sure.

Like I said, it might be something worth testing for some guys. Some need not bother, or shouldn't, depending on their needs. There are other bullet options out there that don't need such things.

We called it a Band Aid

 

[Petey308]

We called it a Band Aid

Yeah. I find "crutch" more accurate since it's helping prop it up and keep it going rather than just covering it up lol.

Just teasing. The term isn't as important as what the term is referring to.

 

[fordy]

My question is- why?

I read on another thread that Hammer now cleans the oil out of the tips.
Is that really where the problem is?
When did that change occur?

Gday mtpockets

That is a great question & few fold but simple words are clarity & correct information

1st
Butt Now we get back to a somewhat individual thing & that's the time a critter takes to tip over
& where you need to look @ this on a personal level ( there is a great thread on HT on impact to tip )

Broadly speaking
if you are the category of it dosent matter if you can get a let's say for conversation sake a 30 second or 100 yard run from impact of pill to tip over of critter as the terrain still allows a full recovery ( AGroup ) even if those numbers are doubled or more
Now move to the Bgroup ( im in here )
We can't afford to have or some don't want that 30 second or 100 yard run as full recovery is a lot harder with the reality of a lost critter on a way higher level ( some spots situations can't afford a 10 yard run ) & dangerous game goes to another level yet advertising " tested on water buffalo in Australia with outstanding results " come on that's plain wrong to try & portray that when it didn't occur is ———

That is the reality of the 1st part ( more to it re DG pills example but I'll keep that aside but would like it addressed but silence has been the only thing I've got on that or "I'll look into it " ) as your seeing people in numerous parts or forums see that hammers are now falling into the AGroup more now than the BGroup & the BGroup are going what's going on & voicing their concerns so to why is part simple the lack of hydraulics as the original design had oil in yes it wasn't @ a consistent level but way better than none especially once you took "dryer impacts" into the equation
The original polymer tip was acting like the oil for a better word & the vast majority of my tests were done involved the original tips or the first batch in the new mould of hammers own (2mm) but are portrayed as " Fordys favourite pill " which is false as things have changed & not only the tips FACT !!! & as soon as I received the new polymer I started voicing my what's going on behind closed doors first it wasnt till I went nothings changing so people have a right to know (imo ) well I got backlash & some pretty inventive story telling about me has occurred


2nd is the need for actual numbers to stack up eg if a pill is rated to 1700 min impact it should work to 1700 not just shy of 2000
Yes the 154hht in 30 cal
Numerous others were not working to the original 1700 advertised 1700
Now once it was shown enough & not only by me the new minimum impact is now 1800 which is fantastic as for the longrange or velocity limited chamberings
now have a line in the sand that's more reasonable but I doubt the majority of you guys on lrh know that some like the 154hht still won't work @ the minimum 1800 & for clarity this has been tested by the hammer boys also after pushing pretty hard by me & others
Yes I don't like false information as we as the customer surely deserve the right to know what is advertised is correct or not , "comfortable "dosent cut it for me great example
The 210hht in 338cal in prototype testing was taken to sub 1700 impact levels
Now it's been rated by Steve after I kept hammering away with factual information on the 3mm tips to "stay above 1900 " but what's the actual figure & try finding that on the bullet information pages as the description fits more with the prototype testing I did not the pill it is today just like the 154hht in 30 cal & list goes on & that's only what I've tested

Yes that's my gripe as some poor sole is going to get caught out & that's where I come from with every pill I test yet was ok when it wasn't a hammer as the hammer cult loved to see those but when it's turned up in own backyard I'm all of a sudden a anti & troublemaker
Come on nothings changed in my testing only the way people are treating it because it ruffles feathers & not what they want to see or hear

Me I just think people should know facts. now your seeing why I never took up Steve's employment opportunity as a independent I don't have to do /say what the boss says oh sorry yes I do as that boss is me & guess what he wants

I'll leave out the 3rd out

Cheers

 

[Petey308]

Gday mtpockets

That is a great question & few fold but simple words are clarity & correct information

1st
Butt Now we get back to a somewhat individual thing & that's the time a critter takes to tip over
& where you need to look @ this on a personal level ( there is a great thread on HT on impact to tip )

Broadly speaking
if you are the category of it dosent matter if you can get a let's say for conversation sake a 30 second or 100 yard run from impact of pill to tip over of critter as the terrain still allows a full recovery ( AGroup ) even if those numbers are doubled or more
Now move to the Bgroup ( im in here )
We can't afford to have or some don't want that 30 second or 100 yard run as full recovery is a lot harder with the reality of a lost critter on a way higher level ( some spots situations can't afford a 10 yard run ) & dangerous game goes to another level yet advertising " tested on water buffalo in Australia with outstanding results " come on that's plain wrong to try & portray that when it didn't occur is ———

That is the reality of the 1st part ( more to it re DG pills example but I'll keep that aside but would like it addressed but silence has been the only thing I've got on that or "I'll look into it " ) as your seeing people in numerous parts or forums see that hammers are now falling into the AGroup more now than the BGroup & the BGroup are going what's going on & voicing their concerns so to why is part simple the lack of hydraulics as the original design had oil in yes it wasn't @ a consistent level but way better than none especially once you took "dryer impacts" into the equation
The original polymer tip was acting like the oil for a better word & the vast majority of my tests were done involved the original tips or the first batch in the new mould of hammers own (2mm) but are portrayed as " Fordys favourite pill " which is false as things have changed & not only the tips FACT !!! & as soon as I received the new polymer I started voicing my what's going on behind closed doors first it wasnt till I went nothings changing so people have a right to know (imo ) well I got backlash & some pretty inventive story telling about me has occurred


2nd is the need for actual numbers to stack up eg if a pill is rated to 1700 min impact it should work to 1700 not just shy of 2000
Yes the 154hht in 30 cal
Numerous others were not working to the original 1700 advertised 1700
Now once it was shown enough & not only by me the new minimum impact is now 1800 which is fantastic as for the longrange or velocity limited chamberings
now have a line in the sand that's more reasonable but I doubt the majority of you guys on lrh know that some like the 154hht still won't work @ the minimum 1800 & for clarity this has been tested by the hammer boys also after pushing pretty hard by me & others
Yes I don't like false information as we as the customer surely deserve the right to know what is advertised is correct or not , "comfortable "dosent cut it for me great example
The 210hht in 338cal in prototype testing was taken to sub 1700 impact levels
Now it's been rated by Steve after I kept hammering away with factual information on the 3mm tips to "stay above 1900 " but what's the actual figure & try finding that on the bullet information pages as the description fits more with the prototype testing I did not the pill it is today just like the 154hht in 30 cal & list goes on & that's only what I've tested

Yes that's my gripe as some poor sole is going to get caught out & that's where I come from with every pill I test yet was ok when it wasn't a hammer as the hammer cult loved to see those but when it's turned up in own backyard I'm all of a sudden a anti & troublemaker
Come on nothings changed in my testing only the way people are treating it because it ruffles feathers & not what they want to see or hear

Me I just think people should know facts. now your seeing why I never took up Steve's employment opportunity as a independent I don't have to do /say what the boss says oh sorry yes I do as that boss is me & guess what he wants

I'll leave out the 3rd out

Cheers

Just to add, not only is it important to advertise correct numbers like minimum impact velocity ratings, anything you advertise should be as factual as possible. I know some will immediately roll their eyes here, but that most definitely includes BC.

The false advertising on BC is a big issue. Some just don't think it is because they think or say a guy should be verifying that themselves anyway or that most guys aren't shooting far enough that it matters or that BC isn't even very useful at all and can't even tell you the proper adjustment for wind (that one's my favorite).

Advertising as close to the true BC matters because unfortunately many people don't know how to properly true their BC, or just simply won't. If you advertise a BC that's way off, it makes it harder to true it accurately as well, because things just don't appear correct when you first input that advertised BC.
I have seen guys in this very forum literally saying they trued their BC to over 1.0 with certain copper monos. That's just proof right there they don't know what they're doing, or at least don't fully understand it.

For example, look at how much difference a 1/2" error in what you end up calling your zero, or in your sight height measurement and input, makes to your ballistic solution for a bullet at 4000+fps MV at 500 yd. Now attribute that difference in drop to BC, and you will see how sensitive BC is to small errors in cases like that.

So it all matters. If only we could get certain people to be a little more transparent and a little more willing to work with the customer on the issues like this, and like you mentioned, that they have, rather than just take offense and immediately shut it down and accuse them of undermining them and going after them .

 

[CRP003]

So it all matters. If only we could get certain people to be a little more transparent and a little more willing to work with the customer on the issues like this, and like you mentioned, that they have, rather than just take offense and immediately shut it down and accuse them of undermining them and going after them .

I'm just processing your novels you write and I am thinking how do people change if there is a culture of superiority and surround them self with like minded people. I think is pretty hard? I am part of many forums. One of which I spend less time there and keep hammering and move on. There are some, just like any place that seem to have an understanding that there are issues and some that don't. Not sure what the answer is.

 

[Petey308]

I'm just processing your novels you write and I am thinking how do people change if there is a culture of superiority and surround them self with like minded people. I think is pretty hard? I am part of many forums. One of which I spend less time there and keep hammering and move on. There are some, just like any place that seem to have an understanding that there are issues and some that don't. Not sure what the answer is.

That definitely makes it hard, that's for sure. That's why I said, if only lol. Maybe I will post that other write-up and give people here some more to ponder.

 

[Reemty J]

Dr KaPOW, we all love you and miss your experiance and humor on the Hammer site!

 

[ButterBean]

I'm just processing your novels you write and I am thinking how do people change if there is a culture of superiority and surround them self with like minded people. I think is pretty hard? I am part of many forums. One of which I spend less time there and keep hammering and move on. There are some, just like any place that seem to have an understanding that there are issues and some that don't. Not sure what the answer is.

Where in the world did that quote come from?

 

[CRP003]

Where in the world did that quote come from?

.

 

[Quintus]

Where in the world did that quote come from?

Try not to make eye contact and just keep moving.

 

[ButterBean]

HT forum

Would yo mind telling me who it was ?