Gunwerks LR 1000 System

[TDD]

I am looking at getting back into hunting after about a 15 year absence (life happens). I have previously hunted in Alaska, Yukon, US, and Africa. All of the game I have taken has been shot at less that 200 yeards, with the exception of a wildebeest at 400 yeards. However, I have always been interested in accurate rifles, as I believe they just give you more confidence in getting the job done.I am looking at the Gunwerks LR 1000 system in 7mmRM, shooting 168 grain VLD's. What appeals to me about their system is that it is a system. The turret is set for the load and it is a self contained package. I used to reload, but I have no desire to get into that again, and the fact that Gunwerks provides custom loaded ammo is appealing. I plan on doing a lot of practice shooting, I just do not want to get back into handloading (I'm too old and too busy for that). Several questions I have for forum members:

1. Can anyone relate their hands on experience with Gunwerks LR 1000.
2. I have always been a fan of large caliber rounds. Most of my game has been taken with a 340 Weatherby. Do you think the LR1000 in 7mm RM can take caribou, moose, and interior grizzly predictably and effectively with 168 grain VLD's.
3. For those who have their Huskemaw scope, what do you think?

I have also left a message for Shawn Carlock to call me to discuss the possibilities with him, and I plan on emailing Kirby Allen as well. I just do not know how they feel about doing load development and providing handloaded ammo for their clients. I guess I could give the specs to Superior Ammo and have them duplicate the rounds.

Your experiences and comments are appreciated.

 

[Ernie]

TDD,
First, WELCOME to LRH!
I do know the Gunwerk's rifles are well made, but I have not shot one.
I would call them and ask for a list of customers who would be willing to take the time to visit with about the very gun you are looking at.
I have a Huskemaw scope and it is a easy system to use-I like it!
Very soon I will be putting it on a 338AX (One of of Kirby's wildcats).

I have never hunted dangerous game before, so I can't comment on that.
But, I would be very content with the 7mm RM for the other critters you mention.
As far as I know, they have used the very rifle you are considering for grizzly, but I would call them and ask that question to confirm.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

There are a number of options for getting custom ammuniton.

 

[TDD]

Montana Rifleman: What are the options for custom ammo?

 

[Chas1]

TDD, They say: No more guessing holdovers or digging for drop charts, just range it and dial the customized yardage turret. Sounds simple but, I'm wondering what about shooting uphill or downhill? They also say: If the wind is up, rest assured the HO turret has the most advanced wind compensation technology on the market built right in. Doesn't mean much to me...Does that mean the scope reads the wind and tells you what to dial in or does it mean a nice smooth reliable turret. If it does read the wind and tells me what to dial in I'd like to know and maybe I'll get one of those scopes. It may be a system but, it sounds over simplified. Just my 2 cents. I agree with previous poster-find several hunters that have one and discuss with them. Best of luck in your quest.

 

[Ernie]

What it means is for the distance you are shooting (say 500 yards) it has a wind dope for a 10mph full value wind, right on the turret for that distance.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Montana Rifleman: What are the options for custom ammo?

Many custom riflemakers will do initial load development for you. After that there are numerous custom ammo makers that can produce that load for you. You can google "custom ammuniton" and you will get a lot of hits. I believe there are also one or two members of this site that provide that serviec as well. You could also ask your smith who he would recommend.

The Gunwerks system looks like a good system, but I dont see it being any better than a custom rifle made to your specs and cartridge. If it is better system then a custom built gun with a NF scope and BDC turret I would like to know the details. The NF scope is hands down a better scope than the Huskemaw, and the rifles these guys (the smiths you mentioned) make are top end tack drivers. Custom rifle and NF scope would probably run you about $5000-$6000 depending on the bells and whistles you wanted. That leaves a good bit left over for custom ammo.

Good shooting,

Mark

 

[ZSteinle]

yea not a big fan of the custom built rifle that is broke in and "tuned" for you. So pretty much you just got yourself a way over priced used rifle. Super!

 

[AaronSkipDavidson]

TDD,

Please call our shop and ask for me. I would be glad to give you some references. As for Moose and Grizzly, we (our guys) have taken several grizzly and a few brown bears with this system (actually you should add one polar bear to that). The longest moose was 890 yards this year in Alaska, one was 350. My bear was about 60 feet, and the little 7mm dropped him in his tracks (He was just under 9'), same for my brothers and his was 450 yards.

We have a great load for the Berger 180 VLD, it makes a super big game round.

Let me make a few more points. Please read Ernie Bishops independant review of the Huskemaw scope, he doesn't draw the conclusion that the NightForce is hands down a better scope. In fact, for hunters the 10 MOA per revolution on the elevation turret is a hindrance, you can dial only about 600 yards in one turn with a BDC. With the Huskemaw, you get 20 MOA in one turn. The 7mm gets right at 1000 yards in one turn. Its simpler to keep track of, and with the Huskemaw you have a second set of numbers on the turret that give you your 10 MPH wind correction.

So for most situations you don't need any additional charts or cards, just range it, dial it, dope your wind, and hold it - very fast and very simple. I recommend carrying a dope card that gives corrections for alt/temp changes or incline shooting. Personally, I've developed some simple rules of thumb so I don't have to carry a card, just my gun.

Let me give you an example, with the 7mm Mag, 168 VLD, I follow this simple rule to correct for alt/temp. At 1000 yards, for every 1000 feet elevation change or 20 degrees temperature change, I make one click correction. (Remember HO has 1/3 MOA) --More for more dense, less for less dense. At 500 yards, I make no adjustment and at 750 yards I make half a click adjustment. Our rifles come with a 2000'/30deg turret and a 7000'/30deg turret, so for most hunting situations inside a half mile, you don't have to worry about making any adjustment.

We aren't the kind of guys that do this for a hobby, this is a business, and we do it ALL THE TIME. We know what works and what doesn't. We have a different spin on a few items, but we can back it up with science AND more comprehensive video proof of one shot kills at ranges beyond 500 yards that any one else that I know of. We show the results. If something actually works better, we could build it--wether its a scope or a rifle or caliber or anything. Why would we recommend anything that is not just right?!

There's a bunch of great smiths out there, but how many of them use off the shelf rifle stocks. We designed our own. How many are just using the same scope as everyone else. We designed our own compensation system. How many use software made by someone else. We build our own. Some of the guys like Carlock and Allen are making some pretty sweet Ultra LR cartirdges and rifles. And GAP makes a great rifle at a great price. Ultimately its your choice.

When we release our new rangefinder next year, it will work with a BDC to compensate for air density and inclination. It will also range twice as far as current industry best units. This will put the "BDC" critisism to rest. It really will be the best system to use for hunting. Personally, I take very few hunting shots that are beyond a half mile. Those kind of shots should be reserved for very special situations and for very accomplised shooters.

We shoot in front of a camera with the expectation of a one shot DROP kill. Many times there might be $20,000 riding on a successful shot. This puts a very high standard on our gear and our shooting. We don't take shots when we don't have an extremely high confidence level. Shooting at game animals at ranges beyond 800 yards very significantly reduces the chances for the one shot kill, and should be taken only when everything is perfect and all corrections accounted for (spin drift, wind, air density, incline, corriolis).

Finally, we have a standing invitation to come handle our rifles, check out our shop and our shooting range, and shoot the product before you buy. There aren't many that get away without laying down some green!

 

[TDD]

Aaron: Thanks for your reply. I will give you a call at your shop tomorrow sometime. Your turn key package system appeals to me. I am 56 years old, a busy professional. I used to handload--I weighed every case, uniformed the primer pocket, cleaned up the flash hole, neck turned the cases, etc. etc. I even went so far as to have Kenny Jarrett make me a set of hand dies for one caliber that were made with the same chambering reamer for the rifle. I just don't have the time or desire to do that anymore. I do understand that I need practice (including field practice) to become proficient. I would not just get a rifle, put a few rounds through it and go hunting.

I do have some questions for you about variations in field conditions and your system (temperature, elevation, inclination, etc.) You addressed some of those questions in your post.

I have taken over two hundred head of game in my life, including Dall Sheep, moose, caribou, elk, deer, a Boone and Crockett brown bear on Kodiak, and most African game. All of those animals were taken at ranges of less than two hundred yards, except for an antelope at 500 yards and a wildebeest at 400. I have always been an advocate of larger calipers: my favorite all around big game round was a .340 Weatherby. It's also why I carry a .45 handgun versus a 9mm. I know there are all sorts of studies about the effectiveness of the 9mm the .40 and the .45. I just look at the holes in the barrell and figure I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a much bigger round. That is why I have some concern about the 7mm RM. However, you watch your videos and all sorts of big game animals just go bang! and flop. The proof is in the pudding.

There is just something about carrying a PDA and doing all these calculations in the field that is not congruent with the hunting I have done in the past. I know a lot of members in this forum do a lot of scouting and set up in certain areas, etc. I would like to have the ability to do some of that, but not have to bring a backpack filled with gizmos into the field to help me accomplish it. I have never hunted that way, so I am not speaking from experience, just kind of visualizing what it would be like.

Anyway, I look forward to talking with you.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Let me make a few more points. Please read Ernie Bishops independant review of the Huskemaw scope, he doesn't draw the conclusion that the NightForce is hands down a better scope. In fact, for hunters the 10 MOA per revolution on the elevation turret is a hindrance, you can dial only about 600 yards in one turn with a BDC. With the Huskemaw, you get 20 MOA in one turn. The 7mm gets right at 1000 yards in one turn. Its simpler to keep track of, and with the Huskemaw you have a second set of numbers on the turret that give you your 10 MPH wind correction.

Skip,

I dont really want to get into a long drawn out debate about the NF vs the Huskemaw, but the NF is in a diiferent class. The only comparrison that Ernie made between the two was that the optics @ 20x were on par. My opinion is that the Huskemaw scope is probably a fine peice of glass. It fills a somewhat limited niche very nicely. Let's consider why I said the NF is hands down better. How would you compare the internal works of the Huskemaw to the NF in material quality, ruggedness, reliability, durability, etc.? Are the parts machined to the same or higher specs? Are Huskemaw scopes put through the same extreme tests that NF scopes are? How strong is the Huskemaw tube compared to the NF tube? If both scopes were placed on a 50 BMG, which do you think would loose its zero first? For lifetime durability, precision, repeatability and reliability form one rugged hunting season to another, my $$$ is on the NF. Agian, that's not to say that the Huskemaw is not a fine scope. It fits the bill for probably most hunters. Some other features of the NF is greater adjustment range, a large selection of useful and functional reticles which are illumintated which makes the NF a much more flexible tool. NF scopes are combat proven and the preference of many (possibly most) BR shooters. They have more BR wins than any other scope. If you really want to do a comprhensive comaprison, I think you should actually do it. Take a NF NXS and a Huskemaw and pound some 16 penny nails through some 2x's. Put them on a heavy cal rifle and fire until one looses its zero, then keep firng the winner until it gives out and see what the difference is. Throw them into a mud hole and an icey stream, shoot them in a dust storm. Thease are extreme conditions and not all hunters need a scope that will survive them, but I think this is part of what separates the two. So I say, if you want to make the comparison, step up to the plate and do it. Once again, your scope is no doubt a fine peice of glass... but as good as a NF? I doubt it.

You no doubt make some fine rifles as well. But I dont see were your rifles could be considered better than many of the customs that are put out by top smiths which are built for less than yours. Their rifles are as good as can be made. Yours are probably right there with them... but theirs dont have the same price tag. The "off the shelf" stocks you mention are top quality solid platforms for the most part, depending on the customers preference. HS, McMillan, B&C, Manners, Joel Russo, etc..... all top quality. It's great that you design your own stocks but are they any better the the ones mentioned?

EDIT: I hunted with a 7mmRM for many years, maybe even before you did. It is a fine cartridge and I took a lot of game with it, all one shot kills. But when my barrel burned out, I went looking for a 30 cal replacement. All esle being equal, the 30 cal bullet is a more effective killer because it makes a bigger hole and carries more power. The difference isn't huge, but there is a difference. Just saying you guys might want to consider other cal options to broaden your market interest.

Your new RF sounds awesome. If it's anything close to what you say it is, it will truely be head and shoulders above the rest. I do hope you consider of providing an MOA option. I would love that and be one of your first customers as well as a marketing asset, because I'll be showing friends. I wont be getting one that is locked into a yardage only system that gives me no flexability for load development and change, not to mention that as barrels wear, their ballistics change. There are new bullets and powders coming out all the time and I like to be able to take advantage of any new improvements in ballistics without having to order new turrets each time... especially for multiple rifles.

Regards,

Mark