Gunwerks LR-1000

[300 ultra]

the lawyers and doctors need something to take on there safari's

 

[Gene Jr.]

I've read this thread with great interest. I run a small business that has to show costs and justify expenses due to working for insurance comapanies. Gunsmiths deal with the same issues I do with everyone knowing their costs and wanting to cut every penny anywhere they can.

Please understand there is a HUGE difference between running a small business that is stand alone and employees several people versus a self employed individual working from a shop located at their home. I have nothing against individuals who are self employed but the overhead costs go up exponentially when making a business pay all of it's own operating expenses and overhead.

Everyone is free to set their own pricing. And customers are free to choose who they want to spend their money with. From a pure cost standpoint, if you consider your own time, it is much cheaper to buy one of the package deals being offered by any of the suppliers.

For me, I'm working with Joel Russo and Bruce Baer to put together MY DREAM rifle. I really enjoy the process and the decision making. If I was doing it on a budget I'd use one from my safe or buy a savage. I want what I feel is the best value for me, my money and my time. Only you can make that decision for yourself.

 

[trophyhunter170]

I have spent the last 30 minutes reading all you guys comments about Gunwerks and I am totally amazed about how some of you have bashed them. I myself would not pay that kind of money for a rifle mainly because I have the skills and abilities to do it myself. However if i did not have that ability and had adequate funds available I would purchase one of these turn key rifles as they have been called.

I have been shooting and working on bolt action rifles for over 30 years and guys there is no way that a out of the box remington or other rifle is comparable to a custom action whatever the brand. Sure there are some good shooters but when it come to consistency I will take a custom action and barrel any day over the factory. Also another thing to look at is Gunwerks is providing you a gun that is gauranteed to shoot .50 moa. That is worth a lot. I have done 4 rifles with custom actions and have never had a problem with accuracy but there is always that chance.

Guys we live in a free country with equal rights. If someone wants to pay whatever the cost is for any rifle it is their right and choice. Its not your money they are spending. God created us all different. We all have different abilities and skills. Also some people just do not have the time to put together a custom rifle. So tell me what is wrong with Gunwerks providing this service for those who want a rifle like this. NOTHING

 

[midnightmalloy]

I think a lot of you guys are funny! Let's be serious, what's the most important part of long range hunting? Being able to hit the target way out there! Snipers that shoot to the same distances don't load there own ammo, bed their rifles none of that. So its unnecessary that this work be done by you to be sucessful. Also cost! I used to sell shotguns for a living and I can't begin to tell you how many $5000-$15000 shotguns have passed through my hands! Think also of all the time it took you to develop loads and the break in, multiple trips to the range the costs of your screw ups! And then say you spent ALL OF THAT TIME AND EFFORT SHOOTING! All of us would be more compitent in the field where it counts! What if you were making $80-$100 an hour instead of $10-15? Breaking in a rifle, load development, bedding the action is all busy work and very monotonous to me. I do all of these things because in my position its more cost effective. I would rather be shooting. I really like the gunwerks guys. I have called and talked to skip and mike and both were understanding and very helpful. I will buy a scope from them in the near future and probably a rifle in the distant future. I bought and shot a $3200 sporting clays shotgun when I drove a $1800 honda civic! What you spend your money on is your buisiness. And just cause you don't have the money or want to buy there product doesn't mean they aren't a good product that will do exactly what they say they will. A savage isn't a stiller, a stockeys stock isn't a robertson or mcmillan! A remington 870 shoots as strait as a kriegoff but you can buy 25 remingtons for the price of the kriegoff! You bash a company that is doing well and is puting a show out that isn't a bunch of retarded country boys sitting in treestands on high fence property. They give most of us good information and that's very helpful. They are good spokesmen for the sport and that should be rewarded. The economy and the power of the market will determine if the gunwerks product is worth it. So far it has shown they are worth it. Enough said.

 

[RockZ]

Aaron,
I have enjoyed your show and feel that you do a good job bringing more people into our sport.
You guys are great ambassadors for long range hunting.
I also like the technical info you provide.
I'm also pleased to see you are working with Nightforce.
I think you are doing a great job.


In reference to those that buy the whole system from you, INCLUDING Load Development:
I actually enjoy load development. I want to achieve the results myself.

I think that is the sentiment of most of the folks on this forum.

We all know inexpensive guns can be accurate.
Heck the savage I built for $800 will outshoot many $6000 rifles.
I've shot 5 shot groups of 4-5inches at 1000yds on numerous occasions and 1.25" at 565yds often with it

Yes, your rifles cost alot of money.

But a custom gun is nice. It just feels good and in a technical sense, it is better than factory rifles by a large margin.

I'm sure you guys build great rifles and if your customers are happy, that is the important thing.
And they must be since I have not seen them online bashing you and the rifles that they have purchased from you.

My views on shooting, especially long range are different than many of the folks that buy your system(including load development).

I really enjoy load development and find it to be the most important part of long range shooting and hunting.

In fact load development is the key to long range hunting. Pulling the trigger is the easy part.

The challenge is getting the performance you need and the work in acheiving these results is the part I enjoy the most.
That is the fulfilling part.

How many of you have been to the range with great expectations, only to have nothing work out as planned and you have just gotten hot, tired and frustrated.
You had no success and left like a dog with his tail between his legs.
On the drive home you are already planning on how you are going to achieve success the next time.
Next time your best efforts work out and you are shooting bugholes at 500yds and ringing the gong at 1000yds almost every time.
The elation and pride you get in results that you obtained through your own hard/smart work is just awesome!

In fact,
when I get a new rifle as soon as I get a great load developed and the performance I need:

I'm already looking at my next build because the fun part is over.LOL

Oh yeah, One more thing Aarron

If you ever have any complimentary spots on your show for a hunt.
Let me know-I'd love to join you guys!!!!!
I don't look too bad on camera either.LOL
Keep up the good work.

.

 

[MHO]

Trophyhunter, COULDN'T have said it better.

 

[Mikecr]

The thread started out with 2 questions; Is it worth it, and how does it shoot.
It seems pretty clear that 'is it worth it' is relative to what you get, which leads to how well it shoots -here.
Well don't forget folks, 'how does it shoot' is still unknown, therefore it's value(here) is still unknown.

Anyone could imply, and everyone does, that 'we expect our guns to do this or that'...
But this is not an answer to how well does it shoot.
This implies to me that the customer is still left with all the efforts it would take with less exensive guns to get them to shoot well. So there is no saving or value gained there.
A customer is merely paying more here, for unknown performance, irregardless of their expectations.

Now this is no different than many many other gunbuilders. Just look at how many of them are doing the same thing. Gunwerks has implied that their prices are inline with the others, and w/resp to the others, I see nothing different one way or another.
It is just further divvying up of the same market and doesn't stand out in my mind as a 'good value'.

I like the Cooper route over this for sure.
But even with this, we are still left with all the REAL work (load development).
If Gunwerks did THIS for customers, and sold guns based on their actual capability, that would seperate them from countless others.
At that point, they might be considered differently.

 

[RockZ]

Mike,
They do load development as an extra for $300. Iwent back and stated it a little more clearly.
That's what I was referring to in my post.
Someone can buy the whole system plus a load developed for the rifle.
Which is great for those who don't enjoy load development or have the inclination to do so.
Of course we know what happens when you use a different lot of powder, primers and bullets .
Sometimes it changes things.

 

[Mikecr]

Yeah it changes things.
The load, and it's performance, is a major part of what we should be buying.
Every part of a performing gun design is built around a specific bullet, and the load that pushes it to expectations. It is not just screwing every part available from Brownells together(ala rem700), with confidence that 'some load' will shoot under 1/2moa.
But building to a blueprint, having all the bugs worked out, to replicate specific performance over & over.

When I spend big bucks on a gun, it's for known performance(used), or accepted as a roll of the dice. It is one or the other.

 

[rscott5028]

It's not surprising that they don't have a big following in this forum.

I wouldn't expect their clientelle to hang out with the do-it-yourself crowd.

I could've bought a couple of their rifles for what I've spent on my lathe and tooling and barrels, etc. But, I'm in it for the engineering experience.

If I was trying to squeeze a $40k safari into my busy schedule and didn't have time for load workup, etc. This sounds like just the ticket. So, why not?

Unfortunately, I've got the busy schedule but $40k for a safari is out of the question.

I really like the clips on Long Range Pursuit where they show some of the processes for building the rifles. Even though I can't afford the product (rather chose to tool up and build my own), they are great ambassadors for the sport.

Value is subjective. But, in the absence of proof as to whether it's a shooter or not, I look at the design, components, and processes and I have to believe that it's a shooter and they'll stand behind it.

-- richard

 

[trophyhunter170]

Well I see Gunwerks is still being bashed. I have no affiliation with Gunwerks but feel the real facts need to be represented here.

First of all they provide you with rifle that is guarantied .50 MOA with their Ammo which is a known performance. Basically a customer can take their rifle when delivered, load up with their ammo and shoot accurately out to a 1000 yds. and .50 MOA and under at 100 yds. No scope sight in or anything. Just get it out of the box, load it and shoot. Of course this depends on the person behind the rifle doing their part.

Lets see what else they offer that is different from other builders. They have chamber reamers designed specifically for the Berger bullet, the rifles come with a G7 5.5-22X50 Night Force scope with a G7 Ballistic Turret, scope rings and bases, and Gunwerks scope coat included, rifle is shipped in a all weather double rifle shipping case, airline approved with wheels for transport, and a real biggie is barrel break-in, and "True BC" data collection. Do you realize how much time is put into this?

Gunwerks completely sets up your rifle by breaking in the barrel, accuracy testing, scope mounting, ballistic profiling using their long range shooting facility, and calibrating a custom ballistic turret for a 1000 yds. When you consider the cost of the G7 Night Force scope, rings/bases, rifle case and all the time required for barrel break in, BDC Turret, data collection, sight in, etc this brings the rifle to right around $4500.00 which is right in line with other custom rifle builders. They offer a services that most other builders don't. I myself prefer doing all this my self but there are a lot of people who had rather pay, receive their rifle, open the case up and go hunting. To them this is a good value.

A Cooper is a good rifle but it is still not in the category of a Gunwerks, Bansner, McQuarter, etc rifles. Gunwerks is different because they provide extras other builders don't. Yes you pay for those extras but for those who want these options it is a good value.

No further response for me concerning this issue.

 

[coyotezapper]

Well, I can finally answer my own question. Two weeks ago in Utah I was able to shoot a LR-1000 in 7mm Mag. This was a second hand rifle and right away I was curious as to why the original owner sold it. After about 5 minutes of shooting I wondered "WHY DID HE SELL IT?" This rifle was a true tackdriver. It had one of the old Huskemaw scopes and even the scope was very good. Would I buy one of these rifles? No but they do shoot. Would I buy a Huskemaw scope? Used, at a good price - yes. New, no. Too many other better scopes. As a side note, the original owner sold this rifle and bought a Rifles Inc. Titanium Strata and I guess it is a real hammer also. Supposedly a 280 Ackley that keeps up with the LR-1000. HMMM.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Good looking rifles great show I have watched it for years but I cant ever see myself buying a rifle for that much money. If you can afford it go for it but the same results can be had for alot less and alot of lessons can be learned along the way. JMO

 

[highridge1]

I quit watching BOTW When they said the 7mm rem mag has more energy than the 30-378 What a ridiculous comment........ Beyond ridiculous..