Gunsmith woes.

[Hunter2678]

So I took my new Kreiger 6mm tube & savage short action to my local & well known central Ohio gunsmith for install 3.5 weeks ago. Upon our agreement then, the gun was scheduled to be finished this week. Long story short, I made a quick status call to him yesterday afternoon and was surprised at what I heard. One part of my 5 point instructions were to turn the barrel down to 1.055 OD end to end with no taper so i can set the barrel back if and when I get throat erosion. The blank has a raw OD of 1.25. He told me that he was going to leave the original OD as is as it would compromise the overall accuracy of the barrel. I said to myself *** did he just say?! Not only that he was going to do away with the barrel nut on the gun too. Now this guy has been in the business for over 35 yrs and told me he's shot enough bench rest to know it will affect the barrel's accuracy no matter how much coolant you ran on that thing when turning it. I explained to him that first off that OD will not fit into my existing HS stock without some serious channel work that I didnt want to do. Not only that I didn't want the extra bulk since it will be a field gun primarily and I also didnt like the fact that he was doing away with the barrel nut to headspace and turning it into a non savage configuration. I dont know if he felt rushed, doesnt have the equipment anymore or he's losin his marbles, but for a guy with his reputation he blatantly ignored my work request's & that has really changed my mind about him. Nice guy but I wont be goin back to him as this was a serious red flag Thankfully a quick call up the road to sharp shooter supply has remedied my issue. Has anyone else run into something similar over the years with a well know and established smith ? I still cant beleive what I heard him say.

 

[J E Custom]

So I took my new Kreiger 6mm tube & savage short action to my local & well known central Ohio gunsmith for install 3.5 weeks ago. Upon our agreement then, the gun was scheduled to be finished this week. Long story short, I made a quick status call to him yesterday afternoon and was surprised at what I heard. One part of my 5 point instructions were to turn the barrel down to 1.055 OD end to end with no taper so i can set the barrel back if and when I get throat erosion. The blank has a raw OD of 1.25. He told me that he was going to leave the original OD as is as it would compromise the overall accuracy of the barrel. I said to myself *** did he just say?! Not only that he was going to do away with the barrel nut on the gun too. Now this guy has been in the business for over 35 yrs and told me he's shot enough bench rest to know it will affect the barrel's accuracy no matter how much coolant you ran on that thing when turning it. I explained to him that first off that OD will not fit into my existing HS stock without some serious channel work that I didnt want to do. Not only that I didn't want the extra bulk since it will be a field gun primarily and I also didnt like the fact that he was doing away with the barrel nut to headspace and turning it into a non savage configuration. I dont know if he felt rushed, doesnt have the equipment anymore or he's losin his marbles, but for a guy with his reputation he blatantly ignored my work request's & that has really changed my mind about him. Nice guy but I wont be goin back to him as this was a serious red flag Thankfully a quick call up the road to sharp shooter supply has remedied my issue. Has anyone else run into something similar over the years with a well know and established smith ? I still cant beleive what I heard him say.

We haven't heard His side of the story, so I wont pass judgement.

He should have done what you wanted "Or" not taken the job.

When ask to do something I dont believe in or something that Is unsafe I simply turn down
the job, And no ones feelings are hurt.

I make it a habit of not trying to talk someone into something they did not want because
they will never be 100% happy, and after spending that much money it should be fun and
the owner should be excited about his new toy.

I believe In eliminating the barrel nut, BUT that would defeat your purpose and is not what
you wanted.

The most I would do in a situation like this is explain what the benefits were and let it go
at that.

 

[Hunter2678]

Well JE he wouldnt go into details with me other than saying that it would deteriorate the accuracy. His side or not, my request wasn't an unusual or unconventional one, in fact it was about as basic as you can get with minimal material removal & a no taper/countour for a smith with his means. For the time and $ involved in things of this nature its amazing to me that a GS would deviate so dramtcially from the customer's request and not give a call to update a change in plans. I plan to talk to him some more when I go pick up my parts from him today. Something just doesnt jive here.

 

[Rem700]

My gunsmith won't re-contour a contoured barrel either. And he doesn't accurize savages???
Every 'smith has his quirks about what they will or won't do. It kinda sounds like there was just a communication break down between both of you.

 

[FEENIX]

I had a similar request but after my gunsmith explained it to me, I followed his recommendation ...

The barrel is a Lilja 1.25" OD, 30" long, and .750" at the muzzle. As you can see I went nut-less and am very pleased with it.

 

[johnnyk]

Sounds like you might be dealing with a pompous *** to me. Customer is always right. JohnnyK.

 

[Coyboy]

The reality is if he did turn down the barrel, and fit it as you requested, and the guns accuracy suffered, You would then complain to whom? Yourself? the smith? or the barrel maker?

Krieger would not warranty a barrel that was contoured after it left there shop.
It was your request to turn it down, but the smith who did the work would most likly get the blame.

Your best option was to sell the blank and get one that was the correct contour from the manf.

All quality barrel makers contour the blanks before they are lapped and most countour the blanks before they are even rifled.

He should have turned you down, and I don't think SSS is doing you much justice by honoring your request, unless your OK with the potential accuracy issues that may come about from inducing/releasing stress into an already finished product.

 

[FEENIX]

The reality is if he did turn down the barrel, and fit it as you requested, and the guns accuracy suffered, You would then complain to whom? Yourself? the smith? or the barrel maker?

Krieger would not warranty a barrel that was contoured after it left there shop.
It was your request to turn it down, but the smith who did the work would most likly get the blame.

Your best option was to sell the blank and get one that was the correct contour from the manf.

All quality barrel makers contour the blanks before they are lapped and most countour the blanks before they are even rifled.

He should have turned you down, and I don't think SSS is doing you much justice by honoring your request, unless your OK with the potential accuracy issues that may come about from inducing/releasing stress into an already finished product.

Well said Jim!

 

[Hunter2678]

That does look alot better and much cleaner Feenix.

I had a similar request but after my gunsmith explained it to me, I followed his recommendation ...

The barrel is a Lilja 1.25" OD, 30" long, and .750" at the muzzle. As you can see I went nut-less and am very pleased with it.

 

[Hunter2678]

The reality is if he did turn down the barrel, and fit it as you requested, and the guns accuracy suffered, You would then complain to whom? Yourself? the smith? or the barrel maker?

Krieger would not warranty a barrel that was contoured after it left there shop.
It was your request to turn it down, but the smith who did the work would most likly get the blame.

Your best option was to sell the blank and get one that was the correct contour from the manf.

All quality barrel makers contour the blanks before they are lapped and most countour the blanks before they are even rifled.

He should have turned you down, and I don't think SSS is doing you much justice by honoring your request, unless your OK with the potential accuracy issues that may come about from inducing/releasing stress into an already finished product.

Well, to be honest I wouldnt have known the true accuracy of the barrel in the first place since its never been shot so I wouldnt have had anything to compare it to. Secondly, I figured for the small amount of material that I wanted taken off the OD of the barrel, that it would not create an issue or degrade the barrel's accuracy. Apparently not even a few thousandths is safe according to him. He mic'd the barrel and said its perfect as it stands now and if he turned it down he could gaurantee it would not mic the same again after that. I now understand that better after talking with a few other people who make a living in that line of work. I also didnt have the option of cherry picking other Kreiger barrel countours at the time I bought it either. This was the last one available from midway and I snagged it for better or worse as I wanted to switch from a 22-250 to a 6BR. This was a no brainer IMO & saved me a 6-8 month wait. I was able to get a little more information during the day yesterday on him as I called a few of the old timers that shoot with us. They all told me a little more about his MO and their past experiences with his work. They were all on board with him and have had nothing but superb results with his work. I finally had a lengthy discussion with him yesterday afternoon directly and we hashed things out after about 10 mins so he'll continue as he planned on my rifle. Told him he did a much better job at explaining his reasons this time than the first go around thats for sure. Guess this field/varmint gun is just gonna be a little heavier than I initially planned (sigh) at least it will be as accurate as possible & thats a trade off I'm willing to accept at this point.

 

[Nimrod]

Secondly, I figured for the small amount of material that I wanted taken off the OD of the barrel, that it would not create an issue or degrade the barrel's accuracy. .

In the gunsmith/machinist world .195 is not a "small amount of material" . Any metal removal can induce stress, that is why most folks prefer to keep it to a minimum. I do agree that he should have turned the job down on the spot though. No reason to keep you waiting for something you didn't want.

Bob

 

[Hunter2678]

In the gunsmith/machinist world .195 is not a "small amount of material" . Any metal removal can induce stress, that is why most folks prefer to keep it to a minimum. I do agree that he should have turned the job down on the spot though. No reason to keep you waiting for something you didn't want.

Bob

Yeah I know that now.
In all fairness, thinking back to that point in time, I assumed it could be turned down a little bit to my specs but I also assumed that he could do that and be fine with it so I went ahead with the midway order. I was pressed for time on finding a new barrel quickly. Obviously hindsight is always 20/20 & this is one of those times when making "assumptions" negatively impacted my intended results.

 

[Coyboy]

Well, to be honest I wouldnt have known the true accuracy of the barrel in the first place since its never been shot so I wouldnt have had anything to compare it to. Secondly, I figured for the small amount of material that I wanted taken off the OD of the barrel, that it would not create an issue or degrade the barrel's accuracy. Apparently not even a few thousandths is safe according to him. He mic'd the barrel and said its perfect as it stands now and if he turned it down he could gaurantee it would not mic the same again after that. I now understand that better after talking with a few other people who make a living in that line of work. I also didnt have the option of cherry picking other Kreiger barrel countours at the time I bought it either. This was the last one available from midway and I snagged it for better or worse as I wanted to switch from a 22-250 to a 6BR. This was a no brainer IMO & saved me a 6-8 month wait. I was able to get a little more information durig the day yesterday on him as I called a few of the old timers that shoot with us. They all told me a little more about his MO and their past experiences with his work. They were all on board with him and have had nothing but superb results with his work. I finally had a lengthy discussion with him yesterday afternoon directly and we hashed things out after about 10 mins so he'll continue as he planned on my rifle. Told him he did a much better job at explaining his reasons this time than the first go around thats for sure. Guess this field/varmint gun is just gonna be a little heavier than I initially planned (sigh) at least it will be as accurate as possible & thats a trade off I'm willing to accept at this point.

For future reference you might try these guys for a barrel, large selection for sure.
Southern Precision Rifles :: Bugholes.com

 

[Hunter2678]

Yeah I remember checking that link and multiple others at the time for availability of new tubes, but nothing had the twist rate or countour I was lookin for. Thanks for the reminder though as Ill keep that site BM'd for future use.

For future reference you might try these guys for a barrel, large selection for sure.
Southern Precision Rifles :: Bugholes.com