Gun Show Trends

[Damage Inc.]

Hate to break it to you Boomer….. but your collection of P64s, and FNs, and Bishop stocked A3-03s…. don't hold the same "value" they used to. Rifles are tools now, more than they used to be. They aren't works of art, they aren't sources of family pride, they hold no mythical deer slaying powers (no matter what Uncle Rico says). If they aren't light, synthetic, and highly accurate…. then they just aren't "useful". Hunting in and of itself doesn't carry the same aura as it did 50 years ago, so the rifles no longer need to have a soul.

Honestly…. There's NO WAY I'd pick a Pre-64 Winny over a Tikka T3 in the same chambering. Ever. For any hunt. Anywhere.

Sacrilege? Absolutely!

Practical? Also….. Absolutely!

Value…. equates to what someone will pay for the item…. NOT what the seller (or a book of "values") thinks it's worth. 60 year old, 9lb, wood/blue, moderately accurate rifles…. are only "valuable" anymore, to people who probably AREN'T going to shoot them.

Example: I love late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. Old Mopars are the coolest cars ever. BUT, I drive a newer big motor Challenger…. because it's a WAY better car. It's faster and safer and reliable and far more comfortable. I can drive it across the country in style and air-conditioned comfort…. And I can still light-up the tires and spin a couple donuts anytime I want. Old stuff is cool, but the new stuff just works way better, the vast majority of folks under 40 or so probably feel the same way.

 

[milo-2]

Hate to break it to you Boomer….. but your collection of P64s, and FNs, and Bishop stocked A3-03s…. don't hold the same "value" they used to. Rifles are tools now, more than they used to be. They aren't works of art, they aren't sources of family pride, they hold no mythical deer slaying powers (no matter what Uncle Rico says). If they aren't light, synthetic, and highly accurate…. then they just aren't "useful". Hunting in and of itself doesn't carry the same aura as it did 50 years ago, so the rifles no longer need to have a soul.

Honestly…. There's NO WAY I'd pick a Pre-64 Winny over a Tikka T3 in the same chambering. Ever. For any hunt. Anywhere.

Sacrilege? Absolutely!

Practical? Also….. Absolutely!

Value…. equates to what someone will pay for the item…. NOT what the seller (or a book of "values") thinks it's worth. 60 year old, 9lb, wood/blue, moderately accurate rifles…. are only "valuable" anymore, to people who probably AREN'T going to shoot them.

Example: I love late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. Old Mopars are the coolest cars ever. BUT, I drive a newer big motor Challenger…. because it's a WAY better car. It's faster and safer and reliable and far more comfortable. I can drive it across the country in style and air-conditioned comfort…. And I can still light-up the tires and spin a couple donuts anytime I want. Old stuff is cool, but the new stuff just works way better, the vast majority of folks under 40 or so probably feel the same way.

I'm a boomer and approve this message, lol

 

[bultinkle]

I think the muscle car analogy is poor. As values for muscle cars in good condition continue to go up. Then again I'm looking at a 67 289 vert right now so I would think that

 

[Damage Inc.]

The analogy was not directed toward the "investment" side…. it was directed at the "useful and practical" side. Muscle cars CAN be an investment, but that typically requires some sweat equity to mature. Almost all "classic" rifles, are not a good investment now, as those "values" continue to decline because useful and practical firearms are cheaper, more accurate, lighter, and generally require no tinkering (or flat-out gunsmithing).

 

[wasskeet]

True, but if you know your doubles, you know quality from cr*p.

FYI, I'm just a tire-kicker in that realm anyway

 

[Frenchie1]

Hate to break it to you Boomer….. but your collection of P64s, and FNs, and Bishop stocked A3-03s…. don't hold the same "value" they used to. Rifles are tools now, more than they used to be. They aren't works of art, they aren't sources of family pride, they hold no mythical deer slaying powers (no matter what Uncle Rico says). If they aren't light, synthetic, and highly accurate…. then they just aren't "useful". Hunting in and of itself doesn't carry the same aura as it did 50 years ago, so the rifles no longer need to have a soul.

Honestly…. There's NO WAY I'd pick a Pre-64 Winny over a Tikka T3 in the same chambering. Ever. For any hunt. Anywhere.

Sacrilege? Absolutely!

Practical? Also….. Absolutely!

Value…. equates to what someone will pay for the item…. NOT what the seller (or a book of "values") thinks it's worth. 60 year old, 9lb, wood/blue, moderately accurate rifles…. are only "valuable" anymore, to people who probably AREN'T going to shoot them.

Example: I love late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. Old Mopars are the coolest cars ever. BUT, I drive a newer big motor Challenger…. because it's a WAY better car. It's faster and safer and reliable and far more comfortable. I can drive it across the country in style and air-conditioned comfort…. And I can still light-up the tires and spin a couple donuts anytime I want. Old stuff is cool, but the new stuff just works way better, the vast majority of folks under 40 or so probably feel the same way.

All very good points- Since I lived it, it is just hard to let go. You're right though and as Jim Morrison said "The only constant is change".

 

[tigerwerkes]

I still like to browse a show every now and then, but honestly I think forums like this have eroded the discriminating selection that was once only found at gun shows. With a few exceptions, everyone I have dealt with here are the folks I would have seen at the shows 10 -20 years ago. Platforms like this are just a smarter, better way to find what I'm after, and I don't have to wait for the next show. I do think a renaissance is stirring in the market for high quality craftsmanship, but it wont be in the form of 20pt checkering or hi-gloss blueing. As the veteran community from the last 20 years of conflict starts to refine their taste in rifles, the demand for no-BS precision craftsmanship is once again on the rise. (think about it...some of the best quality and ballistic advancement ever was from the 50's and 60's after WW2) For now the niche is being filled by some awesome custom and semi-custom houses and is forcing big names to respond with higher quality and features off the rack. I think resource scarcity will also fuel the next craftsmanship and quality transformation as well. When I was a kid and asked my dad for some ammo to go hunting behind the house for rabbits, deer or quail, he would usually hand me less than 5 rounds. Whether it was 308, 22LR, or 20g, there was an expectation I would come back with some results. Even though I hunted something nearly every season since i was 7 or 8, it wasn't until I was in college that I actually had the opportunity to pull the trigger on a "mag dump". That gave me a keen sense of stuff that was reliable and would shoot straight, vs a pile of crap that looked cool but would let me down at the worst possible time. All that to say I think scarcity drives quality up, but yet there is also very strong demand in the sport from high school shooting teams to Ko2M and everything in between. Belgians, Pre-64's and custom Mausers will always catch my eye, but I am also very happy to have a custom carbon that weighs nothing and stacks .7G1's at 1K.

 

[Frenchie1]

I still like to browse a show every now and then, but honestly I think forums like this have eroded the discriminating selection that was once only found at gun shows. With a few exceptions, everyone I have dealt with here are the folks I would have seen at the shows 10 -20 years ago. Platforms like this are just a smarter, better way to find what I'm after, and I don't have to wait for the next show. I do think a renaissance is stirring in the market for high quality craftsmanship, but it wont be in the form of 20pt checkering or hi-gloss blueing. As the veteran community from the last 20 years of conflict starts to refine their taste in rifles, the demand for no-BS precision craftsmanship is once again on the rise. (think about it...some of the best quality and ballistic advancement ever was from the 50's and 60's after WW2) For now the niche is being filled by some awesome custom and semi-custom houses and is forcing big names to respond with higher quality and features off the rack. I think resource scarcity will also fuel the next craftsmanship and quality transformation as well. When I was a kid and asked my dad for some ammo to go hunting behind the house for rabbits, deer or quail, he would usually hand me less than 5 rounds. Whether it was 308, 22LR, or 20g, there was an expectation I would come back with some results. Even though I hunted something nearly every season since i was 7 or 8, it wasn't until I was in college that I actually had the opportunity to pull the trigger on a "mag dump". That gave me a keen sense of stuff that was reliable and would shoot straight, vs a pile of crap that looked cool but would let me down at the worst possible time. All that to say I think scarcity drives quality up, but yet there is also very strong demand in the sport from high school shooting teams to Ko2M and everything in between. Belgians, Pre-64's and custom Mausers will always catch my eye, but I am also very happy to have a custom carbon that weighs nothing and stacks .7G1's at 1K.

You make some strong point there Tigerwerkes! I hadn't given much thought to the fact that I am on this site almost daily, browsing like I was at a gun show and with the exception of being able to fondle them, have a much larger selection to view.

 

[GunHawk]

Knowing the details of the particular firearms you're looking to purchase IS important, you're right.

BUT... it is certainly NOT the end all for purchasing high end firearms.

Condition is the driving force behind actually seeing and handling fine firearms. In the rarefied atmosphere of high end and ultra high end double guns, just looking at a few pictures is NOT enough to guarantee the sale. There is too much money at stake to simply glance at a couple of pictures to convince yourself that a high end, fancy double gun is worth the investment. Well, that is unless you have more money than God and really don't pay any attention to value and condition. And there are folks like this but not the majority by any means. Looking at and handling in real life, on the scene, answers all the questions left unanswered by a few pictures and a delusional description.

Besides, there is always weight and balance to get a feel for which pictures can't do at all. Checking the action for fit and the pivot pin for tightness. Then there is the chamber and barrels to examine. Qualifying a purchase such as this requires hands on, in-person examination.

That's why I only purchase it if there is a return policy. Reputable sellers will have that. I'm not disagreeing with you by the way, I just don't see those types of guns at gun shows. There's always one guy trying to sell a "W. Richards" claiming it was made by the top gunmaker in Birmingham.

 

[Mark37082]

There is a significant difference between collectors and shooters. Sure, there are people that are considered both. I am really not a collector. If I had unlimited disposable income, I probably would be a collector. I really appreciate fine craftsmanship and just love fine quality firearms. Gun shows are void in regard to quality firearms these days. I still find myself paying $10 to walk around and check out what's there.

 

[Hickory1991]

I tend to agree that gun show quality has gone the way of the flea market feel. Too much junk, too much surplus, not enough quality firearms. I used to set up at shows in the 80's and 90's. Lot more collectible stuff back then. Good selection of ammo, reloading supplies, etc. Just not the same anymore.

 

[unclecroc]

As a millennial raising a family with a mortgage and car payments I have to make every dollar go as far as I can. I love the classics as well as the new but given the budget you usually get more with newer firearms. No there's not as much character or soul in new guns but they offer the most bang for the buck which matters to me currently. Now in 20 years yes I'll probably start getting into more collectible older guns.
One thing I do notice about people in general now a days is the lack of negotiation. People almost get offended when you try and barter with them.
I mostly go into gun shows to look for hard to find components and sometimes I get lucky.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I go to the gun shows just for something to do in my down time. Based on the last dozen shows, I don't expect to find anything that will get me to part with my money. There is far too much junk, too much military stuff (old & new) and lots of unrelated misc items covering the tables. Modern sporting arms at prices that would tempt you are non-existent.

Years ago, you could get components at fair prices or those that were hard to find elsewhere, especially powder. That was always a good attractant to the shows. Over the last several years, smokeless powder has been eliminated entirely anywhere around here. The bullets available are usually really old stock that no one uses anymore. If a single vendor was well supplied with new components, he would dominate the whole show but that obviously isn't going to happen.

So I go to the show, pay to park and pay to get in. I walk around for an hour or two while enjoying a cold beer. On a very rare occasion I'll see something I can use and make a purchase. Then I jump into my truck and head back home. Maybe I'll just skip the next show. LOL

 

[30378wbymag]

Hate to break it to you Boomer….. but your collection of P64s, and FNs, and Bishop stocked A3-03s…. don't hold the same "value" they used to. Rifles are tools now, more than they used to be. They aren't works of art, they aren't sources of family pride, they hold no mythical deer slaying powers (no matter what Uncle Rico says). If they aren't light, synthetic, and highly accurate…. then they just aren't "useful". Hunting in and of itself doesn't carry the same aura as it did 50 years ago, so the rifles no longer need to have a soul.

Honestly…. There's NO WAY I'd pick a Pre-64 Winny over a Tikka T3 in the same chambering. Ever. For any hunt. Anywhere.

Sacrilege? Absolutely!

Practical? Also….. Absolutely!

Value…. equates to what someone will pay for the item…. NOT what the seller (or a book of "values") thinks it's worth. 60 year old, 9lb, wood/blue, moderately accurate rifles…. are only "valuable" anymore, to people who probably AREN'T going to shoot them.

Example: I love late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. Old Mopars are the coolest cars ever. BUT, I drive a newer big motor Challenger…. because it's a WAY better car. It's faster and safer and reliable and far more comfortable. I can drive it across the country in style and air-conditioned comfort…. And I can still light-up the tires and spin a couple donuts anytime I want. Old stuff is cool, but the new stuff just works way better, the vast majority of folks under 40 or so probably feel the same way.

Nah... I'll be 60 this year and feel the EXACT same way on all counts as you do... Evolution is a REAL thing!!! My last old Mopar was a 66 Satellite 4/speed with a 1963 426 Max Wedge, car ran high 11's, the new Challenger is faster and you can hear what your buddy is saying inside!!! Ohhh and like 11-12 mpg instead of 4-6 also cruise at 70mph on the highway ay 2200 rpm not 3500 LOL ohhh the good old days!!!