Gun choice

[Wildcatfan1]

i'm new and need some direction. i and my son are avid shooters and I'm looking to buy/modify a rifle to shoot targets and hunt with.

I'm looking to go with either a Remington 700 VTR or sps/tactical heavy barrel 26".

can someone help me out here? i'm torn and maybe am not considering some other factors.

I'm not going to shoot competition, but would like the ability to shoot 450 yards or possibly farther on targets. when hunting i'm guessing the longest shot for deer in central ky will be around 200 to 250.

I really appreicate all your thoughts---

 

[BowElkStalker]

My Tikka Lite .270WSM shots great and will take anything you want to shoot. Might not be the best for target shooting unless you reload. Now my Savage VLP .243 you can shoot all day and not get tired. I did drop a doe at 340 yards and she went about 20yrds and droped, I love the .243. My .270WSM is my elk rifle, and .243 for target/varmint/deer/antelope rifle.

 

[BillR]

I would look at a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 Win. This is a great starter rifle and can be updated as you go along and begin pushing the envelope so to speak. It can easily handle deer at 500 yds once you learn to shoot it. Little recoil and the price is right. You can up grade with triggers and stocks and scopes as you go and end up with a very very nice shooting rig to shoot either targets or deer.
Savage makes some similar rifles and will shoot every bit as good. Never had a problem with either rifle when it came to accuracy.
The .308 Win is a cartridge that can be bought over the counter and shoot very well or reloaded and shoot even better. Great for target practice.
I have a number of long range rifles but when I just want to have fun my old .308 comes out.

 

[fetch]

I am getting a starter setup going to. The reviews on the VTR haven't been fantastic. I have been looking at the following setups

700 sps var 308
700 pss (police) 308
Winchester Stealth 308
Savage 10fp 308

the sps is the cheapest of the group and has less features (ie no bedding, barrel is not floated etc) BUT with the money that you save you can get a nice replacement stock or afford you a little nice scope.

 

[fireroad]

The rifle you want is the Remington SPS Varmint in .243 (also available in 308). I've seen them sell for as little as $489 on gunbroker or gunsamerica. The stock sucks, but you can toss it and get a B&C Medalist A2 for about $225. Add in the cost of a trigger job, some good scope mounts and decent glass and you have a shooter on your hands.

 

[Wildcatfan1]

Thanks for all the replies. what a great website and your thoughts are all confirmations on what i've learned over the last week or so. I must admit i've been on other sites for cars etc and was made to feel unwelcome for asking what likely is a less than articulate question.

i'm likely to go with the remington 700 sps at .308 and modify as the budget will allow.

now what do you recommend for starting loads for the gun? for plinking and then for longer range shooting.

 

[BillR]

Varget powder, 175 SMK bullet, CCI Primer and I buy LC Military Brass by the 100's and with some time in brass prep and load prep I'm getting under 1/4" groups with mine depending on how much coffee I had that day. Oh and one more thing. I found that annealing was very critical on these loads and I am also using the Lee collet dies and neck sizing only.

 

[fireroad]

Thanks for all the replies. what a great website and your thoughts are all confirmations on what i've learned over the last week or so. I must admit i've been on other sites for cars etc and was made to feel unwelcome for asking what likely is a less than articulate question.

i'm likely to go with the remington 700 sps at .308 and modify as the budget will allow.

now what do you recommend for starting loads for the gun? for plinking and then for longer range shooting.

So did you decide to go with the standard SPS or the varmint/bull bbl model? Have you seen the Varmint SF? A buddy of mine has one and the fluting makes for some weight savings and a nicer balance.

While I hate unsolicited advice as much as the next guy....you should really consider .243. It's a blast to shoot, less recoil, lots of bullet choices (you can stabilize the 105 gr Amax with he factory twist) and 6mm bullets generally exhibit less drop and a better ability to buck the wind then .30 cal bullets out of a .308.

I'm not bad mouthing the .308, it's a great round...but I think .243 would suit your needs better. YMMV.

 

[Wildcatfan1]

I am seeking advice and appreciate your thoughts. Will a .243 work as well as the .308 when hunting?

I'm sure there are pros and cons-

Is there any appreciable difference in the costs of rounds?

What about the recoil ? I'm used to shooting a 12 gauge while dove hunting if that is a reasonable basis for comparison-

Thanks again for your thoughts-

 

[fireroad]

There are always pro's and cons when comparing cartridges, but at the distances you are hunting at I feel .308 does not offer much over .243 other then bullet weights, but IMHO that is a non-issue on think skinned animals like deer. I have shot large hos with a .243 and also witnessed first hand a young man drop an Oryx with one shot during a youth Oryx hunt (shot placement is key).

Yes, 243 is an excellent cartridge for whitetails, muleys, antelope and is downright devastating on coyotes. I wouldn't hunt elk with it, but thee aren't too many of them running around KY!

243 ammo is a buck or 2 a box cheaper (more for premium) then 308 and can always be found in any "out of the way mom and pop shop" should you forget your ammo at home. My local walmart always has way more 243 ammo then 308.

My M700 LSS shoots .25 MOA @100 yds with plain old Rem factory ammo 100 gr SP core lokts!

Recoil of the 243 is a bit less too...


Cartridge (Wb@MV) Rifle Weight Recoil energy Recoil velocity
243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5 7.2 7.4
.243 Win. (95 at 3100) 7.25 11.0 9.9
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5 8.8 8.7

.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 18.1 12.5
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9

recoil table link

Hope that helps! Also, if you get a .243 and you decide you would rather have a .308 you can always find M700 take-off barrels cheap on gunbroker....

 

[BowElkStalker]

Thanksgiving weekend I shot a doe at 340 yrds with a .243 and she went about 20yrds max. Chest cavity was jello. Fun to hear the rifle go off, then she her jump, then hear it go thump, then she her flop over.

 

[fireroad]

Thanksgiving weekend I shot a doe at 340 yrds with a .243 and she went about 20yrds max. Chest cavity was jello. Fun to hear the rifle go off, then she her jump, then hear it go thump, then she her flop over.

Congrats! Could you share your recipe (bullet, powder and charge)?

 

[BowElkStalker]

I was shooting my father-in-law old lever action savage with a straight 4x scope. I know they were reloads 100gn soft point, h4350 40gn.

I pretty sure I have killed more dear with that savage than any other gun. Always seems I go hunting(at the ranch) and either have my bow or didn't bring my own gun so end up using his.

 

[Wildcatfan1]

I went on a spree and decdied to buy 2 guns. got a .243 and .308.

the 243 is "really" for my son. it is a remington 700 adl model. what is the best amo to use for deer hunting that i can buy commercially? what is good to site in the gun? is that a bad question? we will be doing some plinking and target shooting and I want to get the gun ready for youth season for him.

with the .308 again what is a good brand and receipt for load to hunt deer with. what would be a good load to shoot long range with- 400-600 yards? i dont have a reloader yet and will have to buy at gun shop or over internet.

thanks again for all your help!!