Gun build time frame

[J E Custom]

The one other thing that I tell everyone, Is not to pay the GS the total amount In the beginning. Only pay for the purchased materials and pay the labor on receipt of the rifle. This way he has incentive to finish as soon as possible to get his money. If he has all the money he may slip a friend or two in front of you because he already has all the money and is in no hurry.

If a GS doesn't want to do this, RUN !

Sorry for your troubles and hopefully it will work for you. A friend had a GS keep his build for 7 years and had not even worked on it. He finally picked all of the parts up and when he ask for his money, the smith as to see his receipt. He didn't have it and did not get his money back. (who keeps a receipt for 7 years). I did ask him why he didn't pull the parts and find another smith after a couple of years and he said he was a friend and at some point he actually forgot about it.

I was waiting for some parts for builds and agreed to build the rifle. 8 days later I called him with the good news that the rifle was completely finished and tested included Bedding. To say he was happy was an understatement.

When he picked it up, the first thing he ask was what did you leave out . We had a good laugh and explained the time line for finishing his rifle. To get him out of a bind I worked a few long days but it was worth it to see his face after waiting 7 years. By the way, the rifle shoots SUB 1/2 MOA.

Having all the parts in hand makes it a lot easier to plan the work and the reason I say 30 days MAX to build a rifle if all the pieces are there.

J E CUSTOM

 

[jpfrog]

I may be reading the OP incorrectly, but I'm having a hard time placing blame on the smith here. He quoted you ranges for typical lead times. Sounds like he's still waiting on a pretty key component of the build, not just sitting around doing nothing? If you agreed to have him purchase these parts for you, I wouldn't expect him to refund you if those parts have already arrived- hand you back the remaining cash yes, as well as the parts that have arrived, if you no longer wish to complete the build and wait for the action/bolt to arrive.

I've been waiting on a Form 4 for 11 months, and was told back when I submitted that they were running 8 months. Even today, it shows around 9 months. I'm not asking for my dealer to refund my $ for the can or the gov to refund my tax check...lead times change, and there are a lot of external influences that dictate that. Sometimes a little extra patience is worth it. I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm by no way judging anything here- I certainly don't have all the facts and already admittedly may not be reading the OP correctly.

 

[lancetkenyon]

How can the smith give you a complete rifle a month after the stock arrives if the action/bolt is not complete? Sounds like a Stiller issue, not a smith issue. I would be chewing the ear off of Stiller, not the smith.

This is why I source my own parts before I drop everything off. I have had fully built rifles back in 2-4 weeks when I supply the parts. If I rely on the smith, I have waited 6-10 months. They don't keep everything in stock, especially for a .338LM (I assume) build.

I ordered a Manners beginning of January. No word on it yet.
I have waited for months for pretty standard actions too. Not even .408 type actions.
Waited 8 months on a barrel once.
Precision custom components from high end companies takes time.
You don't go to the best steak restaurant in town on a Friday night at 7pm and expect a USDA prime 28oz Ribeye in 15 minutes from the time you walk in the door do you? This ain't Jimmy John's....

 

[ducky]

The one other thing that I tell everyone, Is not to pay the GS the total amount In the beginning. Only pay for the purchased materials and pay the labor on receipt of the rifle. This way he has incentive to finish as soon as possible to get his money. If he has all the money he may slip a friend or two in front of you because he already has all the money and is in no hurry.

If a GS doesn't want to do this, RUN !

That scenario is basically what happened to me with my first build. I got the rifle after a very long wait, more than twice what the OP has waited. That left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, so while the rifle shoots great I really don't like it.

I agree this isn't a GS issue but more of a parts issue, since the action isn'tcomplete from the manufacturer. If you want the money to buy something else, just go pick up your parts and sell them yourself to recoupe the money. The only money I'd expect refunded is for the action and any labor not performed.

 

[sable tireur]

I may be reading the OP incorrectly, but I'm having a hard time placing blame on the smith here. He quoted you ranges for typical lead times. Sounds like he's still waiting on a pretty key component of the build, not just sitting around doing nothing? If you agreed to have him purchase these parts for you, I wouldn't expect him to refund you if those parts have already arrived- hand you back the remaining cash yes, as well as the parts that have arrived, if you no longer wish to complete the build and wait for the action/bolt to arrive.

How can the smith give you a complete rifle a month after the stock arrives if the action/bolt is not complete? Sounds like a Stiller issue, not a smith issue. I would be chewing the ear off of Stiller, not the smith.

These two responses are absolutely correct. This situation is out of the gunsmith's control. He called Stiller and was told two months for the action and bolt. He placed the order for the action as a result of that information. Stiller makes the action body but PT&G in their inimitable way, is stalling on making bolts for Stiller. This might be a problem between Stiller and PT&G?

This is not the gunsmith's fault. Blame Stiller and PT&G but not the GS.

The second part is that the gunsmith has also ordered parts very specific to just your build; the stock from Manners which is inlet for the oversize action and barrel channel, and the oversize barrel required to be used on the oversize action. How often do you think he will get another order which will utilize these components? You may not care but it should be a consideration.

If he returns all of your money for this build he is stuck with the components which have an extremely low potential for getting used and paid for. On the other hand, he can keep the money for the components and send those components to you to use for that build when PT&G gets your bolt finished. The action will have to go through an FFL to get the 4473 done. Then it's up to you to choose another gunsmith to complete the assembly from those components.

 

[Canhunter35]

The way I see it u have two options.
Be patient, the gs can't finish a build without the action. It'll get done at some point. There's no reason u should've paid for work not done yet, just parts

Or take ur parts u paid for and go somewhere else, maybe a different actions could work on the t4 if u don't want to wait for stiller

 

[snookntarpon]

I would ask him to return the action. without the bolt its not complete, and get you another action that is ready to ship from another source. He may not make any money on the action, but he would satisfy a customer...
SnT

 

[Don A Parsons]

Its to bad things got held up,,, the suppliers seem to be holding up the show.

I agree, you have options too choose from, no need to go over board since your GS I'm sure is trying his best... Obviously he's pretty good at this or you would not of choose him...

I could of run into the same time frame, but my GS is pretty skilled at what he does,,, he used my factory bolt to do the work over that saved me $220 and the rifle was in my hands on the shooting line in 28 days...

New barrel, trigger, and bolt work over for this long range hunting rig,,, and it is one of the 3 tack drivers I own...

Very lucky indeed,,, If I'm going custom / custom I order in everything I need,,, then let my GS install the parts,,, quick,,, easy,,, fast,,, and frugal...

Plus I get a few other things sorted at the same time to make the experience well worth the effort...

Good luck going forward as it will work out in the long run...

Cheers from North of the 49th

 

[webs]

What were the specs on the Tac408 action you wanted? Maybe we can find a source for one, have your Smith cancel the action order with Stiller and have your gun finished in a month. Delivery estimates on custom parts dont always work as planned.

 

[yorke-1]

Actual time to build a custom rifle if the smith has everything in hands should be no more than 30 days if he scheduled each build in order. But because of other builds in his schedule it could be how many builds in front of you that could effect your start date.

If all parts were ordered, they should come in in 3 to 4 months and the 30 days are added to that. the smith should know what the delivery date is on each item and base his schedule off that. If his vendors don't meet their schedule, he should work on that or change vendors because it impacts his schedule to.

In my experience, some vendors will tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. I always demanded the "Real time" to receive the component and held him to it. it is better to tell the customer the actual time up front, than have to explain why his build is late.

I would first ask him what progress he has made and what is his revised schedule is and then decide what you want to do. Any components he purchased for you should come back to you and he should not refund anything but the cash. In my opinion, any time spent ordering parts should be on him because he did't expedite his schedule.

He may have some reasonable reasons for the delay so try to explain that you would rather have the rifle than the money. if he is unreasonable with that approach, time to move on and find another GS.

Custom builds are not always easy/simple ,but the Smith has/should stay on top of things to meet his schedule.

J E CUSTOM

100% YES!! Time management is the downfall of most of the smiths I've dealt with. Nothing gets a business or vendor on my no-go list quicker than misrepresenting a delivery date or failing to hit an agreed upon time line.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

so did the GS wait until the stock arrived to place the stiller order?? or is stiller 8 months late

was the action 2 separate orders (stiller / ptg ) ? or was the bolt included with the action?

 

[sable tireur]

so did the GS wait until the stock arrived to place the stiller order?? or is stiller 8 months late

was the action 2 separate orders (stiller / ptg ) ? or was the bolt included with the action?

For the uninitiated...

The way this works is we order the action which comes WITH the bolt. Unfortunately for the OP, Stiller has PT&G make their bolts so any hiccup from PT&G shows up with the Stiller action orders. This is yielding an 8 month deficit for the bolts while the action body is finished and deliverable.

 

[KyCarl]

So with their bolt deliveries PT&G controls or really owns Stiller?
If someone tried to hold up my sales for 8 weeks I would have been elsewhere
about 7 weeks ago! I worked in the machine trades and I know for a fact that
hard and fast delivery dates are real and happen every day! Withholding our money or buying another brand is the only option...Money Talks....

 

[sable tireur]

So with their bolt deliveries PT&G controls or really owns Stiller?

I would say they have a choke hold on Stiller. But, bear in mind that we do NOT have all the information about the relationship between Stiller and PT&G. Something may have gone awry, setting up a delayed delivery.

If someone tried to hold up my sales for 8 weeks I would have been elsewhere
about 7 weeks ago!

Really? Who else is making stand alone bolts for other manufacturers actions? Then too, you haven't worked with many of the firearms suppliers these days or the component manufacturers! No one is on time these days and they are using a production model which intentionally creates shortfalls in the supply chain as a standard practice. You may think that tough guy stance will win the day for you but you are sadly mistaken in this world today.

Good Luck!