groups suddenly opened up

[Pdvdh]

Proper bedding never hurts. Only has the potential to help.

 

[Gord0]

Latest update.
I thoroughly cleaned the bore with Bore Tech. It took 3 cleanings to get all the copper. Shot 2 groups and 2 mini ladder tests this morning. Cleaning seemed to help some. I got some holes that are 3 inches away and some holes that are in a 1/2 inch circle. Ladder test holes are not all stacked vertically. Some of the holes don't measure exactly round as if the bullets are wobbling. As discussed before they may not be stabilizing totally because of the temp. It was 26 degrees this morning.

Recall that this rifle with these bullets and powder would shoot 3/4" groups consistently when it was in the 50s and 60s.

Here is what I'm going to do unless someone has a better idea.
- check to make sure the action is not touching the stock somewhere it shouldn't be.
- use a target material that would make a clean entrance in order to see if the hole is exactly circular.
- if the action isn't touching and if the 55 gr shows any sign of wobble, get some 50 grain bullets that may stabilize better.

My question now is what can I use for a target material such that the bullet would a clean entrance so that I could measure the hole to see if it is perfectly round???

Many thanks in advance.

Plain white paper with no backer is your best bet. Also shoot at the furthest distance you are able to. When and if you jump down to a lighter bullet don't go with the 53gr vmax, they're longer than the 55. I really think you're going to need to go down to a 40gr vmax or nosler BT in that 14twist to get good reliable stabilization.

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

You don't even clean some of the carbon out with some Hoppe's? I can understand and have seen first hand the benefits that leaving some copper fouling in the barrel can do. Just curious, thanks.

No nothing I don't even bother anymore if the gun shoots to what I have come to expect from it I don't. I run hundreds of rounds typically between cleanings anymore. Now I will say I'm not sure every barrel can get away with this I had a Ruger M77 that in no way could do this but it made those Savage barrel borescope photos look good.

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

I have two 1-14 twist 223 barrels they will shoot upto and including 60gr bullets. Bullet weight is not your issue. Your gun may not like that particular bullet but the fact that it's 55gr isn't your issue.

 

[Ksmirk]

My 223 started doing really odd things several months ago, took it home and got to looking things over and ended up putting a serious cleaning on the barrel... took 3X to get all the copper out of the barrel :-O went back to the range with a known load that would shoot 3/8" in this rifle and couldn't get better than 1 -1/1/8" WTH! went back home and the bore was coppered up AGAIN! cleaned well and a trip to my buddies house who has a bore scope and well the new barrel just got here a few days ago.

When I find a load that shoots well in a rifle I will jot down the info in my data book and when things start acting up I will load several more and try them again as it gives me some base data to go from as if things are going South. Later,

Kirk

 

[dmax1800]

I know some of you guys are getting tired of hearing about this. I'm sorry for that, but this is about the only source of GOOD information from people who know what they are talking about. Please bear with me.

I took a close look at the bedding on the HS precision stock and found 2 things. 1) The action just behind the recoil lug touches the aluminum bedding with 2 strips that run lengthwise with the barrel and about 1/8 inch wide. Not much contact, in my opinion. The rear tang (area around the rear action screw) does not contact the alum bedding. When I tighten the front action screw (as directed by HS Precision) and then tighten the rear screw, the barrel is pulled slightly away from the stock. I put 18 layers of alum foil (measures .018") on top of the tang bedding area, and the rear tang now contacts the area when the rear action screw is tightened and the tightening of the rear screw no longer moves the barrel away from the stock.

I also cleaned the barrel. It only had 16 shots since the last thorough cleaning. My opinion is that the barrel is collecting WAY too much copper after only 16 rounds. Below is a picture of the patches for the cleaning. The process is:
- 3 wet patches with Bore Tech carbon remover;
- nylon brush with carbon remover;
- 3 wet patches with carbon remover;
- dry patch to dry barrel
- 3 wet patches with Bore Tech copper remover;
- nylon brush with copper remover;
- repeat with copper remover on patches and nylon brush

Do the pictures depict TOO much copper in the barrel after only 16 shots? Is rebarreling in the rifle's future?

Would the rear tang not contacting the bedding area and putting some torque on the action when the rear action screw is tightened cause some rounds to "fly", especially when temps are colder? Or is the sum of a barrel that collects copper, action not very well bedded and 55 grain bullets that may be only marginally stabilizing adding up to some, but not all of the rounds being "fliers"?


Many thanks, again.

 

[Ksmirk]

Caliber and how many rounds? Later,

Kirk

 

[dmax1800]

Kirk, caliber is 22-250 Rem. Total rounds is 200 to 250 down the tube.

 

[Ksmirk]

Well I finally got on my computer and read thru your posts and I can't say enough that if you could find someone with a bore scope to look your barrel over. I had one rifle that I ended up having to get in there and polish it up as the factory job wasn't the best and like your saying it would copper up PDQ! I fought it for awhile then gave up and pulled the barrel. I had one barrel from a big name once that coppered up real bad! like 10 rounds it looked like a gold mine.... sent in bore scope pics and got 2 replacement barrels as it seems the one I got somehow got past the polishing process with out getting polished. My poor 223 that is getting a new tube has a touch over 6K rounds on a factory Savage barrel, it shot on a bad day 1/2" then it was like a light switch was tripped and it opened up to over an inch, next trip it was colder and it just kept getting worse.

Back when I had my 250 I never had good luck with the NBT's but 50gr VMax and H380 worked rather well. I would clean it up real well and find someone who can scope the barrel, the 250 is a touch harsh on barrels, JB bore paste and some real tight fitting patches with a mess of hard work and I've heard about a process with 0000 steel wool but I've not found anything on it. Find someone with a bore scope so you can real see what's going on or I'm afraid it'll drive you batty trying to guess at things! from reading and seeing your patches it looks like something change in your bore and it's gotten rough. Later,

Kirk