Gratuity/Tips for guided hunting

[Small Lady]

How about if the outfitter clearly states the expectation of gratuity and you don't want to tip, you don't book a hunt with them? No one is making you go on a ten thousand dollar guided hunt. This is why I hated guiding hunting, bunch of out of shape cheapskate boomers. You get what you pay for.

If they say at the time while you're booking it, that the real cost is $12000, not $10,000, because you also have to pay an extra $2000 cash to someone, then fine.
But if you are done the trip, and some man/woman suddenly says ' don't forget to tip me ' then no way.
Yesterday I dropped off my boss's wife's suv to get ceramic coated, and today I went to pick it up.
I have a company Visa card to put expenses on, and when i was paying it asked me how much I would like to tip. I stopped and looked at the woman who was working the front desk and said ' really it asks for a tip, that's outrageous, I am the customer, if anything it is me who should be getting a gift of some sort for bringing in my business '. The woman replied ' I feel it's bull crap to, but the owner put it on there '. I told her that no way would I be tipping, hit 0 tip, and finished up and left. Next time I'm asked to book something in for ceramic coating, it won't be at that shop guaranteed. The price is the price, we are done. If they're under charging, then raise prices.
I got home, and jumped on the tractor, loaded 3 semi trucks with hay, and put a bale in a pickup for another customer. I was NOT looking for any tips, it is my job.
Imagine if I said something to my customers like, well I sure did a good job loading you, and did no damage to your trucks, so tip me, and held my hand out.
Years ago a guy tried to tip me for repairing his bicycle, it was a side job that I did when I was working at the hospital as an RN. I refused to take the tip from him, and told him no, I have billed you already for the parts and labor, you paid it, we have concluded our business. If I was too stupid at billing, to have charged him enough, or any customers enough, that is my fault, and only my fault. I billed these people for the hay I loaded up today, and it's a lot harder to properly load a semi with hay, than it is to do many other tasks, but even if offered a tip, my answer would be no thank you.

 

[Small Lady]

That's actually illegal. You might buy them a bottle of wine at Christmas.

My point was that if someone is going to tip, then tip for the really huge things in life, not the small stuff.
A Doctor saving your life is huge, and should be worth acknowledgement. Most other things are all small stuff.
I used to work with an amazing Doctor, in my opinion he is a miracle worker. Cannot count how many times patients left without so much as thanking him. On one particular day he had already done about 15 hours in Emerg/OR, and was about to go home, so had I done a 15 hour shift, and was going to walk out to the parking lot with him. We hear them call a code, and announce inbound ambulance, eta 8 minutes, seriously injured woman in her 40s. He looked at me and said, "well lets go change and scrub". We turned around and headed towards the OR, and I asked him how he possibly had the energy left to do surgery. He said that despite being exhausted, nobody was dying today if he could possibly stop it. We operated on her until 02:45 then cleaned up, and walked out together, having been there since 06:30 the day before. That woman lived, and I was talking to her several days later, and she thanked me. I said ' You're welcome, but the Doctor who performed your surgery, after an already grueling day, is the hero you should be thanking'. She asked me how to thank him, I said get one of your visitors to bring up a nice Thank You card, and write something wonderful inside of it, and I'll be sure that he gets it. The woman does so, and I gave him the card. This amazing man burst into tears, and said that was the most beautiful thing, and how nice it felt to be thanked. I truly believe that the most underappreciated people around are Doctors, and mechanics. They fix problems, and rarely get thanked, or tipped, much less people really appreciating them.
Want to tip people, tip your mechanic who just did a lot of work on your car, truck, plane, boat, quad, tractor, piece of heavy equipment, motorbike, or whatever they fixed, and don't forget that Doctor who performed a miracle on you, your spouse, child, best friend, or whomever.
That woman in my opinion stood a 5% chance of making it when brought into the OR that night. But 3 weeks later she left the hospital, and went home to her husband and children. He does miracles regularly, rarely gets thanked, never tipped. How much is your life worth?

 

[quandary]

General rule of thumb is 10% of the outfitter charge. In other words if its a $10,000 hunt guide tip $1,000 unless they do a lousy job. This is regardless of whether you shoot the animal on day one or day 5. $25/day is good for the camp cook. If you have an additional animal subject to a trophy fee that would be more discretionary.

 

[JTH]

Comparing the tip you give at a coffee shop to a tip you give a guide is like comparing apples and pickup trucks. There's no comparison.

A guide that uses his local knowledge and busts his tail for you over multiple days in an effort to help you realize a goal or put the crowning touch on your dream hunt is priceless,whether you punch a tag or not. I don't think twice about a 10% tip. They're doing this work seasonally, for relatively low pay because they love being outdoors. They need to "make hay while the sun shines".

Most good outfitters give suggested guidelines on tipping on their websites or brochures, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. Stiffing a guide that worked hard for you is a classless act in my book.

 

[Small Lady]

Comparing the tip you give at a coffee shop to a tip you give a guide is like comparing apples and pickup trucks. There's no comparison.

A guide that uses his local knowledge and busts his tail for you over multiple days in an effort to help you realize a goal or put the crowning touch on your dream hunt is priceless,whether you punch a tag or not. I don't think twice about a 10% tip. They're doing this work seasonally, for relatively low pay because they love being outdoors. They need to "make hay while the sun shines".

Most good outfitters give suggested guidelines on tipping on their websites or brochures, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. Stiffing a guide that worked hard for you is a classless act in my book.

I know only one person who is a hunting guide.
This man has a full time job for the city, takes time off to guide part time.
He does it because he loves it, but has also told me that it pays much more per day than his regular city job.
He expects no tips, and feels bad when people try and tip him. So obviously not all guides are the same.

But lets do some quick math shall we.
Five day guided hunting trip for $5,000 is $1,000 per day.
Accommodations cost the outfitter say $100 per day, $100 to feed you, and lets call it $40 in gas to drive you around. But with 2 people per room, the owner is making a lot of profit on the room to.
So far the expenses are $240 a day, now the boss man takes $300 and shoves it into his pocket, still leaving $460. The government doesn't tax a business for what they spent, and so far its all tax free. Licenses, bookkeeping, insurance, and such, another $100 again all legit expenses, so not taxed. Now that guide makes $360, he does pay income tax on it, so pockets $250 a day per person, times however many hunters.
End of the year the owner pay some tax on the $300 he pocketed.
Now this owner has 8 to 16 people in hunting, say 4 groups of 2 each, so this all doubles, per group. That guide has 2 people paying him, not 1, but the owner is taking $300 times 8, so making $2400 to $4800 per day, plus a lot more on all those rooms..
Now that is a cheap hunt relatively.

Lets say this hunt is 5 days, but $10,000 per person.
Accommodations are a little nicer, so lets up it to $120 day, food is better to so $120 per day, owner takes $500 as his profits, and that $40 for gas, lets not forget the license, insurance, bookkeeping $100. So we are at $980 per day from $2000 per person. The left over $1,060 pays wages etc, but likely 2 people per guide, possibly 3 or 4, occasionally just 1.
How are these guides not doing really well?
Then they want a cash tip, which isn't even taxed on top of it all. Nice gig, I to want a job making $2000 to $5000 per day, a chunk of it not taxed, to go out and play in the woods, something I do for fun, and free.

The guide I know, flat out told me that he makes really good money guiding, while not the exact amount, said about as much per day guiding, as per week at his job, which is a good paying job for the city, as a heavy duty mechanic repairing city owned trucks, equipment, and such, for $39.15 an hour. Maybe some guides make crappy wages, but then why not quit, and open your own guiding company, or go work for someone who pays better.
By the way my boss owns a few hotels, and restaurants.
A typical hotel room doesn't cost anywhere near the $100 per person, based on double occupancy as laid out above, in fact it doesn't cost $100 total. Food cost in a restaurant is typically 27% of what you pay, so add in cooks, servers, sous chefs wages, overhead costs, insurance, snow clearing, bookkeeping, credit card machines, website costs etc it brings that up to 58% on an average diners bill, leaving 42% profit, that yes the owner pays tax on that 42%. So don't tell me that you can't feed these hunters really really well for $100/120 per day...the true cost is likely far less, but I way over budgeted the food and accommodations costs so nobody says that there is no way to do it for that amount.

By the way, recently stayed at a hotel owned by my boss, had the executive suite, really nice room, normal rate is $275 day, his cost including chambermaid, front desk staff, the free breakfast included, maintenance guy, heat, lights, phone, tv, etc is $81.09 per day. A cheaper, smaller room, goes for $149 per day, costs him $52.17.

 

[jamie eaton]

Yes you are talking guides . Most places the guides work for outfitters . The outfitters pay for leases , insurance , taxes and licenses plus much more I'm sure . Then they pay the guides . There is not as much money made out in the world as most would think , if there was , I would have more !

 

[JTH]

I know only one person who is a hunting guide.
This man has a full time job for the city, takes time off to guide part time.
He does it because he loves it, but has also told me that it pays much more per day than his regular city job.
He expects no tips, and feels bad when people try and tip him. So obviously not all guides are the same.

But lets do some quick math shall we.
Five day guided hunting trip for $5,000 is $1,000 per day.
Accommodations cost the outfitter say $100 per day, $100 to feed you, and lets call it $40 in gas to drive you around. But with 2 people per room, the owner is making a lot of profit on the room to.
So far the expenses are $240 a day, now the boss man takes $300 and shoves it into his pocket, still leaving $460. The government doesn't tax a business for what they spent, and so far its all tax free. Licenses, bookkeeping, insurance, and such, another $100 again all legit expenses, so not taxed. Now that guide makes $360, he does pay income tax on it, so pockets $250 a day per person, times however many hunters.
End of the year the owner pay some tax on the $300 he pocketed.
Now this owner has 8 to 16 people in hunting, say 4 groups of 2 each, so this all doubles, per group. That guide has 2 people paying him, not 1, but the owner is taking $300 times 8, so making $2400 to $4800 per day, plus a lot more on all those rooms..
Now that is a cheap hunt relatively.

Lets say this hunt is 5 days, but $10,000 per person.
Accommodations are a little nicer, so lets up it to $120 day, food is better to so $120 per day, owner takes $500 as his profits, and that $40 for gas, lets not forget the license, insurance, bookkeeping $100. So we are at $980 per day from $2000 per person. The left over $1,060 pays wages etc, but likely 2 people per guide, possibly 3 or 4, occasionally just 1.
How are these guides not doing really well?
Then they want a cash tip, which isn't even taxed on top of it all. Nice gig, I to want a job making $2000 to $5000 per day, a chunk of it not taxed, to go out and play in the woods, something I do for fun, and free.

The guide I know, flat out told me that he makes really good money guiding, while not the exact amount, said about as much per day guiding, as per week at his job, which is a good paying job for the city, as a heavy duty mechanic repairing city owned trucks, equipment, and such, for $39.15 an hour. Maybe some guides make crappy wages, but then why not quit, and open your own guiding company, or go work for someone who pays better.
By the way my boss owns a few hotels, and restaurants.
A typical hotel room doesn't cost anywhere near the $100 per person, based on double occupancy as laid out above, in fact it doesn't cost $100 total. Food cost in a restaurant is typically 27% of what you pay, so add in cooks, servers, sous chefs wages, overhead costs, insurance, snow clearing, bookkeeping, credit card machines, website costs etc it brings that up to 58% on an average diners bill, leaving 42% profit, that yes the owner pays tax on that 42%. So don't tell me that you can't feed these hunters really really well for $100/120 per day...the true cost is likely far less, but I way over budgeted the food and accommodations costs so nobody says that there is no way to do it for that amount.

By the way, recently stayed at a hotel owned by my boss, had the executive suite, really nice room, normal rate is $275 day, his cost including chambermaid, front desk staff, the free breakfast included, maintenance guy, heat, lights, phone, tv, etc is $81.09 per day. A cheaper, smaller room, goes for $149 per day, costs him $52.17.

Your simple math and sample size of one are very flawed.

You assume the outfitters cost start on the day the clients show up. For a well run outfit that's not the case at all.

If hunting private ground in the US, there's expensive leases to pay. On public ground, many outfitters pay a concession fee.

If they're running livestock, it has to be maintained year round. Same for vehicles and livestock trailers.

Trails into camp and to hunting areas need to be maintained.

Tents need to be pitched before and taken down after the season. And patched or replaced in the off season.

Firewood needs to be cut.

Those guides are employees and subject to payroll taxes, in the US that's social security, federal unemployment tax, state unemployment tax, and workers comp.

The business must be insured.

To market the business and book hunts many must do trade shows, the travel and floor space can easily exceed $10,000 for a single show, in some cases much more.

I'm sure there's a lot more but hopefully you get the point.

I've done more than a dozen guided hunts in the US and Canada and haven't met a single guide yet that's rolling in cash. I'm happy to pay the hard working guide a 10% tip.

But to each his own, you do you.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

I read an article about 15 years ago on how Hunting the USA is going the way of Europe.
Only for the RICH.
Look at the hunting space available today. It is either Public Land where it is over crowder, over hunted, and a lot of Jerks that don't know how to hunt.
Then you have the Private Land. If you don't own it, the leases are going up to the point where a working man can't afford.
Then you have the "Ranch" hunting where you pay $$$$$ to shoot a raised Deer/Bear/Exotic.
I had some other hunters that I hunted with for years on a leased farm in NY. Great price for 8 of us to rent the farm house for a week and 2,000 acres of woods to hunt deer. A few of them would go the Canada every year. When they got to the Lodge they would be brought into the "Deer Room" there was pictures of all the nice bucks on the property and what feeding station and times the deer would feed. The pictures of the Deer also had "PRICE" tags on them $5k to $30K depending on the Rack size. The animals were Micro Chipped and could be tracked anywhere on the property. This tracking system told the Outfitter where anyone of the Bucks were feeding and what times, You would pick the Deer you wanted and also needed to have the money to cover the animals price. The outfitter would take you out to a little heated blind close to the feeding station by 4x4. You had your lunch, drinks and a radio. You were also given the time the buck would show up. Once you shot your trophy deer you called on the radio. Then the guides would come out and process your deer for the type of mount you wanted. Directly after that you would go to the Lodge and have a big dinner with lots of drinks, settle up on the cost of the animal and also give the guides $1k to $5K as a tip for helping you get a trophy. Saw all this on video from the Lodge with the "Game Room" pictures and prices, feeding stations, heated stands, and tons of nice raised Bucks.

 

[Troutslayer2]

I know only one person who is a hunting guide.
This man has a full time job for the city, takes time off to guide part time.
He does it because he loves it, but has also told me that it pays much more per day than his regular city job.
He expects no tips, and feels bad when people try and tip him. So obviously not all guides are the same.

But lets do some quick math shall we.
Five day guided hunting trip for $5,000 is $1,000 per day.
Accommodations cost the outfitter say $100 per day, $100 to feed you, and lets call it $40 in gas to drive you around. But with 2 people per room, the owner is making a lot of profit on the room to.
So far the expenses are $240 a day, now the boss man takes $300 and shoves it into his pocket, still leaving $460. The government doesn't tax a business for what they spent, and so far its all tax free. Licenses, bookkeeping, insurance, and such, another $100 again all legit expenses, so not taxed. Now that guide makes $360, he does pay income tax on it, so pockets $250 a day per person, times however many hunters.
End of the year the owner pay some tax on the $300 he pocketed.
Now this owner has 8 to 16 people in hunting, say 4 groups of 2 each, so this all doubles, per group. That guide has 2 people paying him, not 1, but the owner is taking $300 times 8, so making $2400 to $4800 per day, plus a lot more on all those rooms..
Now that is a cheap hunt relatively.

Lets say this hunt is 5 days, but $10,000 per person.
Accommodations are a little nicer, so lets up it to $120 day, food is better to so $120 per day, owner takes $500 as his profits, and that $40 for gas, lets not forget the license, insurance, bookkeeping $100. So we are at $980 per day from $2000 per person. The left over $1,060 pays wages etc, but likely 2 people per guide, possibly 3 or 4, occasionally just 1.
How are these guides not doing really well?
Then they want a cash tip, which isn't even taxed on top of it all. Nice gig, I to want a job making $2000 to $5000 per day, a chunk of it not taxed, to go out and play in the woods, something I do for fun, and free.

The guide I know, flat out told me that he makes really good money guiding, while not the exact amount, said about as much per day guiding, as per week at his job, which is a good paying job for the city, as a heavy duty mechanic repairing city owned trucks, equipment, and such, for $39.15 an hour. Maybe some guides make crappy wages, but then why not quit, and open your own guiding company, or go work for someone who pays better.
By the way my boss owns a few hotels, and restaurants.
A typical hotel room doesn't cost anywhere near the $100 per person, based on double occupancy as laid out above, in fact it doesn't cost $100 total. Food cost in a restaurant is typically 27% of what you pay, so add in cooks, servers, sous chefs wages, overhead costs, insurance, snow clearing, bookkeeping, credit card machines, website costs etc it brings that up to 58% on an average diners bill, leaving 42% profit, that yes the owner pays tax on that 42%. So don't tell me that you can't feed these hunters really really well for $100/120 per day...the true cost is likely far less, but I way over budgeted the food and accommodations costs so nobody says that there is no way to do it for that amount.

By the way, recently stayed at a hotel owned by my boss, had the executive suite, really nice room, normal rate is $275 day, his cost including chambermaid, front desk staff, the free breakfast included, maintenance guy, heat, lights, phone, tv, etc is $81.09 per day. A cheaper, smaller room, goes for $149 per day, costs him $52.17.

This is all ridiculous

 

[Recon$$]

I see both sides of the argument. Still waiting to see what life changing money is from trout slayer. If tipping is such a problem then build it into the costs instead of praying over clients. Seems like it's almost a gamble by an outfitter hoping it's more then built in costs. I'm not a poor tipper, I did my time in the service Industry. But if you won't build it in and run the gamble then it's on you. Sorry just cause I save my pennies for a 20k hunt I can't afford... in all reality. Doesnt mean i need to tip you enough to buy you a "life changing mountain house" cause you spent 20 days on a slope looking at a great bull cause it's what you love. Since you neglected to answer my question and cry about rich boomers, this is my take.

 

[Small Lady]

I read an article about 15 years ago on how Hunting the USA is going the way of Europe.
Only for the RICH.
Look at the hunting space available today. It is either Public Land where it is over crowder, over hunted, and a lot of Jerks that don't know how to hunt.
Then you have the Private Land. If you don't own it, the leases are going up to the point where a working man can't afford.
Then you have the "Ranch" hunting where you pay $$$$$ to shoot a raised Deer/Bear/Exotic.
I had some other hunters that I hunted with for years on a leased farm in NY. Great price for 8 of us to rent the farm house for a week and 2,000 acres of woods to hunt deer. A few of them would go the Canada every year. When they got to the Lodge they would be brought into the "Deer Room" there was pictures of all the nice bucks on the property and what feeding station and times the deer would feed. The pictures of the Deer also had "PRICE" tags on them $5k to $30K depending on the Rack size. The animals were Micro Chipped and could be tracked anywhere on the property. This tracking system told the Outfitter where anyone of the Bucks were feeding and what times, You would pick the Deer you wanted and also needed to have the money to cover the animals price. The outfitter would take you out to a little heated blind close to the feeding station by 4x4. You had your lunch, drinks and a radio. You were also given the time the buck would show up. Once you shot your trophy deer you called on the radio. Then the guides would come out and process your deer for the type of mount you wanted. Directly after that you would go to the Lodge and have a big dinner with lots of drinks, settle up on the cost of the animal and also give the guides $1k to $5K as a tip for helping you get a trophy. Saw all this on video from the Lodge with the "Game Room" pictures and prices, feeding stations, heated stands, and tons of nice raised Bucks.

That sounds awful, and isn't hunting in my opinion.
A hunter, or a few hunters, scouring the woods in hopes of getting a moose or deer, is hunting to me. I've never used a guide, and doubtful that I ever will. Would much rather go alone, or with friend(s) and take our chances. If that was the only hunting around for me, my hunting rifle would soon be sold. I'm also not paying someone to do for me, what i am capable of doing myself.

 

[Small Lady]

This is all ridiculous

Wow, that was deep!

Love your facts backing it up to.

What is life changing money to you anyway? $5,000,000? $50,000,000?

Those guides and outfitters are making good money, if they weren't then they would be doing something else.
There are many good paying businesses that any normal person can get into, they don't have to be a genius.
I've met plenty of business people in my lifetime, when younger through my parents, and now through my boss.
Some will even tell me how rough it is, and profits are down, while they lead an extremely lavish lifestyle.
A few weeks ago one was telling me how times are tough, he doesn't even expect to net over $30,000,000 this year. I laughed, and said ya it must be rough if you call a bad year only making 30 million in profit.
He smiled, and said "yes I guess that doesn't sound to good to say out loud".
Even regular working people will complain about lack of money, but they smoke, drink, eat out, go on vacations, have an expensive hobby, and then try to make it seem like their life is hard.

Well stop drinking alcohol, no more cigarettes, cook reasonable priced food at home, don't go on fancy vacations, and take up a cheap hobby like going for walks instead of say golfing. Sell that fancy gas guzzler, buy a 10 year old used civic that gets 40 mpg, and insurance is dirt cheap for, and think about all the money you'll save, then stop complaining.

I am paid very well, but also only allow myself to spend 1/3 of what I make, the other 2/3 I save and invest, because I want to buy my own business someday. Also I don't smoke, drink a beer or 2 a year, rarely eat out, don't own a car, never use drugs, avoid casinos, don't often go see a live theater production or live band play. My only real splurges are playing some poker, bought a dirt bike, nice rifle and scope, quality clothes and boots, and gifts for the important people in my life.
Oh almost forgot, an occasional lottery ticket for $5.

If I had a billion dollars in my bank account, still would not spend 10k or 20k on a hunt. But we all have our own priorities, mine isn't paying some rich guide to show me around the woods, I can do that perfectly fine on my own.
And if I was to ever say win a contest where the prize was an expensive hunt, I guarantee you that I'll not be tipping anyone. If the prize I won was a hunt, then its already paid for.
If we need to start tipping for everything, then I best start holding my hand out for a wad of cash to be placed in it many times per week, because I do a lot for people. Just a couple of hours ago I helped fix a garage door, and it was well after my work hours for the day were done, so I got paid 0 to do so. Guess I should have asked for a $100 tip though from the sounds of it. Especially since I got dirty, was up on a ladder which is dangerous, and cut my hand on a sharp edge.
Instead of being greedy though, I was glad to help the mechanic out, despite not being my job.
People should just do stuff because they can, not because they expect a tip for doing it!

 

[asd9055]

TIPS. It is actually an acronym and it stands for "To Insure Prompt Service", and given ahead of time. It started in restaurants long long ago. Then Restaurant onwers realized the didn't have to pay their dining room stuff much and went down hill from there. Now many places you go to, will include 18%-25% on your bill.
I have hunted guided hunts where the guides were PROHIBITED from accepting tips. I have hunted one hunt in Colorado where the host came and asked me for a tip. And I hunted a guided hunt where I knew I would be expected to give a daily "tip" to the guide, the cook and the maid. I knew ahead of time, so I figured it out in the TRUE cost of the hunt.
These days, anywhere you go they ask for a TIP. Even drive through fast food places. It is getting annoying.
When I had more disposable capital, I looked into guided hunts in Northern contiguous US, Canada and Alaska. Then added the expect not listed "expenses". Never booked those hunts.
I wonder how soon before clothing stores add the "tip" line in thee bill.
Just obsevations and vending. Before we do anything these days, we need to compare the true costs, not the advertised one.

 

[quandary]

Not to mention on many hunts the guides don't have an 8 hour day job, its a 24 hours a day guiding, scouting, cooking, cleaning, skining, de-boning, hauling meat and heads, putting up camp, striking camp, etc etc etc. Add on top of that being nice to more than a couple per season dumb *** dufus hunters who treat them like servants, can't shoot, are out of shape, act entitled....... I could go on and on. They earn the money plus the tips.