Go/No Go Gauge Mystery

[csmith86]

I have a Savage model 112 long action that was originally chambered in .223. I bought and put on a .17 Remington barrel built by Shaw barrels. I purchased a set of go/no go gauges from Pacific Tool and Gauge. I got the barrel very close to proper headspace but the bolt will still close on the no go gauge although it closes quite stiff. I recently came into a Remington Model 700 factory chambered in .17 Remington and the no go gauge closes very easy in this chamber as well. Pacific is the only place I have found that builds a set of gauges for the .17 Remington. Do you think it is possible I got a bad set of gauges?
Thank you for any information.
Clint

 

[twister]

you can force it closed on the no go and make a dent in your chamber.

 

[csmith86]

you can force it closed on the no go and make a dent in your chamber.

I would not say I have to force it, it just closes stiff.

 

[epags]

I found this:
NO-GO: Corresponds to the maximum headspace Forster recommends for gunsmiths chambering new, bolt action rifles. This is NOT a SAAMI-maximum measurement. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gauge, it may still be within SAAMI specifications or it may have excessive headspace. To determine if there is excessive headspace, the chamber should then be checked with a FIELD gauge. The NO-GO gauge is a valuable tool for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight and accurate chamber.
FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gauge, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gauges are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.
You say: but the bolt will still close on the no go gauge although it closes quite stiff.
Sounds like a FIELD gauge may not close for you. Hopefully you can rent one?

 

[csmith86]

I found this:
NO-GO: Corresponds to the maximum headspace Forster recommends for gunsmiths chambering new, bolt action rifles. This is NOT a SAAMI-maximum measurement. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gauge, it may still be within SAAMI specifications or it may have excessive headspace. To determine if there is excessive headspace, the chamber should then be checked with a FIELD gauge. The NO-GO gauge is a valuable tool for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight and accurate chamber.
FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gauge, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gauges are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.
You say: but the bolt will still close on the no go gauge although it closes quite stiff.
Sounds like a FIELD gauge may not close for you. Hopefully you can rent one?

Thank you! I will start researching a field gauge!

 

[raz175]

If you are still closing on a no-go gauge, you didn't screw the barrel in far enough. To set the headspace in a Savage, start threading the barrel into the receiver, then put the go gauge in and close the bolt. Continue threading the barrel in until it stops with light pressure. Lock the barrel nut down. Cycle the bolt to check that the go gauge stills closes. Check with the no-go gauge and make sure it doesn't close. If it closes, the no-go gauge was made wrong.

 

[shortgrass]

Using head space gauges requires a light touch. If the bolt has a plunger style ejector, it should be removed so you are not 'fighting ' the spring that powers it. Also, the firing pin assembly should be removed, so you don't feel the hand-off to the trigger. Never 'lean on' or force a head space gauge. With the bolt stripped of its plunger ejector and firing pin assembly the bolt handle should fall of its own weight when no gauge is present. The same technique should be applied with the GO, move the bolt into the action until it is in position to turn down. The bolt handle should fall. Do the same with the No-Go, the bolt handle should not fall of its own weight. There are techniques used by those with experience, but don't try them until you can understand and properly use what you have. Gauges are very rarely made "wrong". It is usually an 'operator' problem.

 

[csmith86]

If you are still closing on a no-go gauge, you didn't screw the barrel in far enough. To set the headspace in a Savage, start threading the barrel into the receiver, then put the go gauge in and close the bolt. Continue threading the barrel in until it stops with light pressure. Lock the barrel nut down. Cycle the bolt to check that the go gauge stills closes. Check with the no-go gauge and make sure it doesn't close. If it closes, the no-go gauge was made wrong.

I have replaced or changed several Savage barrels and I understand what you are saying, but in this case when it threads in far enough to not close on the no go gauge, it will also not close on the go gauge.
Thanks!

 

[csmith86]

Using head space gauges requires a light touch. If the bolt has a plunger style ejector, it should be removed so you are not 'fighting ' the spring that powers it. Also, the firing pin assembly should be removed, so you don't feel the hand-off to the trigger. Never 'lean on' or force a head space gauge. With the bolt stripped of its plunger ejector and firing pin assembly the bolt handle should fall of its own weight when no gauge is present. The same technique should be applied with the GO, move the bolt into the action until it is in position to turn down. The bolt handle should fall. Do the same with the No-Go, the bolt handle should not fall of its own weight. There are techniques used by those with experience, but don't try them until you can understand and properly use what you have.

Thank you! The plunger was removed but not the firing pin assembly. I will try this as well.

 

[david g ranes]

I have replaced or changed several Savage barrels and I understand what you are saying, but in this case when it threads in far enough to not close on the no go gauge, it will also not close on the go gauge.
Thanks!

Figure out how to measure your gauges maybe no go is stamped wrong and jar two go gauges

 

[raz175]

I have replaced or changed several Savage barrels and I understand what you are saying, but in this case when it threads in far enough to not close on the no go gauge, it will also not close on the go gauge.
Thanks!

Sounds like the gauges aren't cut right (which would not surprise me from PTG) There should .004-.005 difference between the go and no-go.

Be careful removing the firing pin and running the bolt in. The main bolt head pin is captured by the firing pin running through it. I have seen rifles that get jammed when the bolt head pin slides out.

 

[HRM Johnny]

As a non-gunsmith who worked in an automotive machine shop when I was younger; I would suggest getting a micrometer or a quality caliper, and measure the gauges. Compared to Sami specs.
just my two cents worth.

 

[shortgrass]

As a non-gunsmith who worked in an automotive machine shop when I was younger; I would suggest getting a micrometer or a quality caliper, and measure the gauges. Compared to Sami specs.
just my two cents worth.

The overall length of each gauge will tell you nothing. The gauge must be measured from the base to the datum on the shoulder. A cartridge case comparator could be used for this. Have you removed the extractor , so you are not fighting it when you close the bolt?

 

[mulie]

You can also place a single piece of scotch tape on the back of the go-gauge trim it so it fit the base, then attempt to close the bolt on it. Scotch tape is around .002 - .003" in thickness. If the go-gauge with tape on it will not allow the bolt to close most likely the no go-gauge is not correctly made. Also the barrel has the correct head space. You can measure the tape thickness to know if it is .002 - .003" thick.