Glass make a decent shooter better?

[WildRose]

Ok, this may seem simplistic. Can a good scope help me shoot better? How? Or rather, in what way ? I have a scope mounted on my 338 378 that, well, works. It's from Osprey International. It was VERY affordable. No, let's face it, it was cheap. In my defense, I knew next to nothing (or less) when I acquired it. Nuff said bout that.
I see my rifle cut holes on top of each other at times and my group at 200yds last week was about 5 to 6 inches, with a couple even farther. E.S. was 33fps, SD was 9 , average speed 3485, 225gr HORNADY Sets. Seems like decent loads(?). After thinking about it, I wonder if maybe it might benefit me to step up in the optics department. Please, comments are welcome. Similar experiences, anyone?

5-6" at 200yds is terrible.

Good glass can definitely improve a rifles performance over a cheap scope that won't hold zero or track reliably.

A quality scope with adjustable parallax will definitely help you perform better than cheap glass that doesn't.

In general quality glass can do a lot to help you out but it won't help a bad rifle, bad load, or a shooter lacking the basic skills necessary to shoot well.

You can give the nicest custom rifle, custom ammo, top end glass combo to someone with no skills at all and they still won't be able to hit a 55gal drum at a hundred yards.

If you have a decent rifle and the skills to shoot it better glass will definitely help but it's only one very important component in the total mix.

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the response. Yeah, it was $125 for 10-40 x 50mm objective, 1/8moa turrets, illuminated reticle, side adjust paralax, 30mm tube, with rings. Sfp. Problem seems to be that I noticed last week I was having to strain to focus on target thru reticle. Tried paralax knob, didn't think of the eye relief till just now, but no real difference. Kinda just chocked it up to things that make you say "huh that's odd" but after thinking about it some more, I can't believe that this would be normal with good scopes. Bout decided to do some thing else. It works , and it got me to here, but....I don't think here is where I wanna be. Just wanted to know if any body else had had something like this happen. Guess it doesn't really matter, I just gotta pull the pin and do it I reckon.

Rule of thumb from an old friend of mine, "Be willing to spend at least as much on your mounts and optics as you did on the rifle you're putting them on".

Good advice thirty years ago, good advice today.

There are no cheap scopes that will stand up to the recoil of your rifle.

 

[Gregg C]

5-6" at 200yds is terrible.

Good glass can definitely improve a rifles performance over a cheap scope that won't hold zero or track reliably.

A quality scope with adjustable parallax will definitely help you perform better than cheap glass that doesn't.

In general quality glass can do a lot to help you out but it won't help a bad rifle, bad load, or a shooter lacking the basic skills necessary to shoot well.

You can give the nicest custom rifle, custom ammo, top end glass combo to someone with no skills at all and they still won't be able to hit a 55gal drum at a hundred yards.

If you have a decent rifle and the skills to shoot it better glass will definitely help but it's only one very important component in the total mix.

And there is the root of the problem, maybe. I am constantly second guessing myself. Have I done enough ? Did I do that last whateveritwas rite? Am I on the rite track, or chasing my tail, and spinning plates? Is my equipment up to snuff? Spend enough ? Work on it , tweak it enough ? Once upon a time, I raced go karts. Bought a pretty expensive Italian chassis, did enough horse trading and wound up with a competitive motor combo, etc. Well, I was getting the snot kicked out of me on the track. Joined what I called(later) the Pipe of the Week Club. Whoever beat me, it HAD to be some something , some doodads they had that I didn't, so I would buy the Pipe they had. Two stroke expansion chambers aren't give away items. After about the 5th one, and still not performing well, I decided "It ain't the Pipe, dummy" and started concentrating on learning chassis set up. Long story short, I began to improve, and finished that last season 2nd in the points standings. So I'm asking myself , and you all out there, who have more experience, is it REALLY the Pipe ? After looking thru a Night Force scope today, I gotta say, well, maybe it really COULD be the Pipe. Still not positive for certain, after reading some other posts in this forum, I discovered my stock was touching the barrel. Why? Cause the **** stock screws were loose ! AAARRRRGGGG!!! So, tightened everything back up, and going to shoot maybe next week. High winds today. None the less, I see a better scope on my rifle in the near future. I done screwed up and seen the lite, so to speak! Thanks so much for the input.
Gregg

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rule of thumb from an old friend of mine, "Be willing to spend at least as much on your mounts and optics as you did on the rifle you're putting them on".

Good advice thirty years ago, good advice today.

There are no cheap scopes that will stand up to the recoil of your rifle.

I had lots of trouble with more expensive scopes braking on my .375-.416 Rem Mag. I tried a Tasco World Class 4-14X40 and the problems went away. When I went to Alaska both that rifle and the .300 Weatherby wore them.

I installed a Tasco Trajectory model on a varmint rifle. The thing tracked perfectly. With that I made my longest kill. Later I gave it to my son-in-law. He installed it on a Savage 7 mag. He would take it to the range, dial it to 600 hit the gong, dial it back to 100, put one in the "X" and ask others if they wanted to have a shooting contest.

 

[Pdvdh]

A Tasco? Really?
They must have improved their scopes. They used to come in the large boxes of Cracker Jacks in days of old...

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rule of thumb from an old friend of mine, "Be willing to spend at least as much on your mounts and optics as you did on the rifle you're putting them on".

Good advice thirty years ago, good advice today.

There are no cheap scopes that will stand up to the recoil of your rifle.

A Tasco? Really?
They must have improved their scopes. They used to come in the large boxes of Cracker Jacks in days of old...

That was about 2001. I used them while I saved for the Swarovski z5 5-25X52. After trying four I discovered Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50. I have three.

 

[WildRose]

A Tasco? Really?
They must have improved their scopes. They used to come in the large boxes of Cracker Jacks in days of old...

The 90's era Tasco World Class actually weren't all that bad. At least they'd hold zero.

Growing up on Bushnell Banner and Bushnell Sportviews that was actually a step up.

The one "old scope" I actually miss was an old steel case Weaver Widefield 3-9x40 with the "TV Screen" ocular. Unfortunately the reticle eventually cracked and I couldn't get it repaired anymore as they'd gone out of business.

 

[WildRose]

And there is the root of the problem, maybe. I am constantly second guessing myself. Have I done enough ? Did I do that last whateveritwas rite? Am I on the rite track, or chasing my tail, and spinning plates? Is my equipment up to snuff? Spend enough ? Work on it , tweak it enough ? Once upon a time, I raced go karts. Bought a pretty expensive Italian chassis, did enough horse trading and wound up with a competitive motor combo, etc. Well, I was getting the snot kicked out of me on the track. Joined what I called(later) the Pipe of the Week Club. Whoever beat me, it HAD to be some something , some doodads they had that I didn't, so I would buy the Pipe they had. Two stroke expansion chambers aren't give away items. After about the 5th one, and still not performing well, I decided "It ain't the Pipe, dummy" and started concentrating on learning chassis set up. Long story short, I began to improve, and finished that last season 2nd in the points standings. So I'm asking myself , and you all out there, who have more experience, is it REALLY the Pipe ? After looking thru a Night Force scope today, I gotta say, well, maybe it really COULD be the Pipe. Still not positive for certain, after reading some other posts in this forum, I discovered my stock was touching the barrel. Why? Cause the **** stock screws were loose ! AAARRRRGGGG!!! So, tightened everything back up, and going to shoot maybe next week. High winds today. None the less, I see a better scope on my rifle in the near future. I done screwed up and seen the lite, so to speak! Thanks so much for the input.
Gregg

Been there, done that. I've spent more money on rifles and glass since joining this forum than I had in my entire life prior.

You can take a top world class shooter with the nicest, most accurate custom rifle ever built and he still won't be able to hit a sleeping Rhino at 200 yards with a cheap scope that won't zero or hold zero.

Check the torque specs for your rifle and set your trigger guard screws accordingly.

If you rifle hasn't been bedded already, do it yourself or get it done by someone competent. There are a lot of good threads on the subject here and a lot of good videos on Youtube. There's also a bunch of crap on Youtube as well so if you decide to follow the instructions given in one of them it ain't a bad Idea to post it here and get opinions.

I learned to bed my own rifles right here and have been slowly improving my technique for about five years now. Even screwing a few up to at least some degree I at least managed to never weld a stock to the action so I'm ahead of a lot of "Do it yourselfers".

This forum is an amazing resource with a near unlimited wealth of accumulated knowledge from shooters, gunsmiths, stock makers, even custom action builders. Such a resource never existed even 20 years ago much less when many of us were "coming up" so utilize it all you can, it will save you tons of time, money, and aggravation and you can learn by our examples and experience instead of the school of hard knocks most of us had to go to.

 

[Gregg C]

Been there, done that. I've spent more money on rifles and glass since joining this forum than I had in my entire life prior.

You can take a top world class shooter with the nicest, most accurate custom rifle ever built and he still won't be able to hit a sleeping Rhino at 200 yards with a cheap scope that won't zero or hold zero.

Check the torque specs for your rifle and set your trigger guard screws accordingly.

If you rifle hasn't been bedded already, do it yourself or get it done by someone competent. There are a lot of good threads on the subject here and a lot of good videos on Youtube. There's also a bunch of crap on Youtube as well so if you decide to follow the instructions given in one of them it ain't a bad Idea to post it here and get opinions.

I learned to bed my own rifles right here and have been slowly improving my technique for about five years now. Even screwing a few up to at least some degree I at least managed to never weld a stock to the action so I'm ahead of a lot of "Do it yourselfers".

This forum is an amazing resource with a near unlimited wealth of accumulated knowledge from shooters, gunsmiths, stock makers, even custom action builders. Such a resource never existed even 20 years ago much less when many of us were "coming up" so utilize it all you can, it will save you tons of time, money, and aggravation and you can learn by our examples and experience instead of the school of hard knocks most of us had to go to.

The school of hard knocks is one of the best school around. ****, tho, tuition is high....
That being said, experience is the best teacher, and I have finally realized that if I can relate to someone else's experience, and understand what it is that they are saying, it's almost like money in my pocket. I am a doer, tho, I sometimes struggle with instructions. Sometimes, I just gotta take a cha nce and risk effing stuff up. Oh, school of hard knocks. Right. That is why I lurk here on this forum, to learn from others as much as possible.
I bedded it myself, also didn't weld it to the stock, but I don't remember pillaring, so I most likely didn't. Maybe I should ? Thank you for the input.

Gregg

 

[WildRose]

The school of hard knocks is one of the best school around. ****, tho, tuition is high....
That being said, experience is the best teacher, and I have finally realized that if I can relate to someone else's experience, and understand what it is that they are saying, it's almost like money in my pocket. I am a doer, tho, I sometimes struggle with instructions. Sometimes, I just gotta take a cha nce and risk effing stuff up. Oh, school of hard knocks. Right. That is why I lurk here on this forum, to learn from others as much as possible.
I bedded it myself, also didn't weld it to the stock, but I don't remember pillaring, so I most likely didn't. Maybe I should ? Thank you for the input.

Gregg

Pillars are a good idea if you have a cheap plastic or hardwood stock that can crush easily.

In some of my stocks I've made my own pillars by drilling out the holes and filling them with a mix of bedding compound and tungsten powder using a straw to protect my bolts. once finished and hard, I just then drill about a 3/8" hole using a piloted bit back down through the original holes to give a little added clearance.

If there's a cheap and dirty way to do something I've probably tried it. HA!

Most decent stocks you buy today either have a built in steel or aluminum bedding block or pillars already installed eliminating the need for a whole lot of tinkering on them other than just bedding them properly.

 

[Gregg C]

Pillars are a good idea if you have a cheap plastic or hardwood stock that can crush easily.

In some of my stocks I've made my own pillars by drilling out the holes and filling them with a mix of bedding compound and tungsten powder using a straw to protect my bolts. once finished and hard, I just then drill about a 3/8" hole using a piloted bit back down through the original holes to give a little added clearance.

If there's a cheap and dirty way to do something I've probably tried it. HA!

Most decent stocks you buy today either have a built in steel or aluminum bedding block or pillars already installed eliminating the need for a whole lot of tinkering on them other than just bedding them properly.

Food for thought. I really enjoy the sense of accomplishment I get from doing things like that. Shucks, I even built my bi-pod. Took me 2 days, and looks kinda like a mud fence, but it works ! Thanks
Gregg

 

[WildRose]

Food for thought. I really enjoy the sense of accomplishment I get from doing things like that. Shucks, I even built my bi-pod. Took me 2 days, and looks kinda like a mud fence, but it works ! Thanks
Gregg

Same here. It's the same kind of mentality that has me carrying my own rifles wherever I go no matter how much of a pain or additional expense it is.

You can look at all of the photos from my 2015 trip to Africa and see me putting the rifle used front and center in the photo. The rifle is an extension of me and every bit a part of the "Trophy Shot".

I have a few customs that were already Turn key rifles" when I bought them and as much as I like them, they will never mean as much to me as those I put together a piece at a time over the course of years or that I did all of the final bedding and accurizing on myself.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

We have tested a lot of scopes for ability to hold zero. The vast majority of scopes test do NOT hold zero. Some have moved up to .5 moa. These are all high end scopes. What I have seen from $2k plus scopes does not leave me with much confidence in cheap options. Glass quality, turrets, user features, ext. dont mean crap if the scope does not hold zero.

 

[Alaska2006]

Perhaps but it sure doesn't hurt to have the edge of quality in your favor. I took a Canadian buddy to the range this summer and sit him behind a couple of my customs with good glass. mind you the kid had never even shot a scoped rifle in his life. He has fired a shot gun a few times.
Set him up on paper at 200 yrds, dialed in the scope and he fired 4 rounds, about 2.5" group (not so good) this rifle is easy .5" at 200 yrds.
Moved him out to 300 yrds on a 10" gong; dialed in the scope for him and he produced 5 for 5 hits. I had setup 6 clays to the right of the gong and he was picking off clays at 300 very consistently.
Just for fun we moved the 10" gong to 600 yrds. I dialed in the scope; his comment was, no way can I hit that, my comment was hold dead on as you have been, breath and squeeze..... First round hit at 600 yrds. He thumped the gong at 600 with about a 70% hit to miss the rest of the day and used 3 various rifles. I think the kid is hooked and so is his US buddy the came out and shot with us the day. His buddy brought his personal Ruger .308 that day but had a difficult time on anything beyond 200 yrds with his personal rifle. I sit him up behind my 7STW, my 300 WM and a semi custom 6.5 CM that day and he two was banging steel at 600 yrd. He fell in love with the 7 STW and is currently researching a custom build of his own.
Quality and precision matter.