Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

[stx]

Great Thread!

 

[dcon]

Once the seating depth is determined, does it stay the same for other similar powders? Or does that need to be reestablished with each powder change?

 

[Greyfox]

Once the seating depth is determined, does it stay the same for other similar powders? Or does that need to be reestablished with each powder change?

It has generally stayed the same with my rifles when changing powders.

 

[mwess1113]

Great thread! Question on the 6.5 130 grain hybrids. Are those suitable for deer hunting?

 

[txsendero]

I know this thread is about the VLD Bullets, but does the same seating depth testing apply to their "Classic Hunter" Hybrid bullets. Has anyone found that the seating depth window with those are also approximately .030" wide?

I answered my own question. I never did a complete seating depth test on my 7 Rem Mag since it was already shooting pretty decently just seating .020" from touching lands. I did the full test as Berger recommends for the VLDs with the 168 gr Classic Hunters. The worst 3 shot groups were about 1". Ended up with 6 shots in a .410" group at .065 off the lands.

 

[Dirty45]

Has anyone had luck with this method with the ELD-X? I'm getting ready to try with the 212's.

 

[jbs2014]

Did anyone load the 300 grain Bergers in the 338-378? I have starting load data with retumbo but I am interested in how far off the lands I should seat them. As I understand it weatherby chambers and the whole free bore thing that weatherby has make things a bit different than normal cartridges.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thank You

 

[Greyfox]

Great thread! Question on the 6.5 130 grain hybrids. Are those suitable for deer hunting?

There have been quite a few posts indicating that the 130 Hybrids perform well on deer sized game at mid ranges. While I have not used them for hunting, my 6.5x47 Lapua using the 130 Hybrids at a muzzle velocity of 2900FPS is still moving at 1900FPS with energy of 1030ft/pounds at 700 yards(4500 altitude/45F). I would have no problem using them to this distance.
Here is an article that includes terminal performance on game.

http://panhandleprecision.com/berger-130-ar-hybrid-load-data-performance-evaluation/

 

[West Calamus]

Thanks Len for the good info. After playing with coal on many different calibers and bullet designs I have found that the most accurate hunting bullet does not always set .020 off the lands and contact point of the bullet. Some bullet designs like more of a running start then others. My 25-06 prefers a .080 jump with the particular bullet I use. I have always been skeptical of using VLD's because of the associated "warnings" of were to set the VLD off the rifling. Since the VLD is a long bullet and if the loads are not to compressed they should work through more standard length magazines. I will now try some VLD's . THX again for the informative info.

 

[Double Dropper]

Excellent information

 

[nksmfamjp]

I basically agree with the Berger method, but I find the sweet spot in my rifle to be ~0.020" wide.

I'm seating at 0.020" jump as that was best after 2 rounds of oal development. The powder charge didn't need changed.

i haven't tried much jam, so maybe there is more work to do!

 

[Willoughby]

Marine Sniper:

I've got a .300 Win. Mag. (I know you have a .300 Wby.) I'll be loading up with 210 VLD's soon and was curious what flavor of powder you're using in you Berger 210 load and your Nosle 200 grian AB load. Thanks

I use 77gr H1000 with 210 Bergers jammed works great

 

[PrecisionRx]

That's what I would do with the VLDs. Jam then into the lands about .010" and vary the powder charges. Then you could take the best powder charge and try 0.010" off the lands, 0.020" off the lands, etc. out to 0.070" off the lands. Many times they will shoot just fine slightly jammed into the lands.

With non-VLD style bullets, start with the bullet 0.015-0.020" off the lands rather than jammed into the lands. Non-VLDs are typically kept off the lands to avoid pressure variations that could result if some touch the lands and some don't. 0.015" off the lands should keep them all off the lands.

I have found success with this formula as well.

 

[ronaldwalter]

Berger Bullets' Eric Stecker has just made available a tech bulletin in Word format.

You may download it here to save it one your own computer or read it online.



Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Background

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifles. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won't shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying "this is the best my rifle has ever shot."

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.


Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a "sweet spot". This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won't be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don't give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith

Thanks for the tip. Just got some 105VLD and I will try it this weekend