Getting higher runout with Lee collet neck die than my Lee FL die

[Dirtrax]

Do you have a way to verify the temp you're reaching during the annealing process?
I have found the Lee FL dies to size the necks more than needed. Without the expander button this can be a problem but you did mention you tried it both ways. Do you have or could you acquire a brand new unfurled case to see if there is any difference?

 

[Tac-O]

Do you have a way to verify the temp you're reaching during the annealing process?
I have found the Lee FL dies to size the necks more than needed. Without the expander button this can be a problem but you did mention you tried it both ways. Do you have or could you acquire a brand new unfurled case to see if there is any difference?

I do not. I had a bottle of tempilaq 750F but the cap had uknowingly broken and it went bad, or so I think it did and I tossed it. I was thinking of finding a tempilstik to use. Other than that, I don't have a method other than darkening the room and heating until it just starts to become visible.

I typically do use my Lee FL die with the expander and it works just find. I will typically get <0.002 bullet runout using it. I was just trying out the method you and Savage mentioned. It was just way too tight trying to run the case up into the FL die with the expander in there AFTER I had already sized it down with the FL die with the expander removed. I tried doing that after seeing how hard it was to try to expand it with the collet mandrel.

I do have a lot of brand new unfired starline cases I was going to start using after expiring these winchesters. I prepped some of the new starline with my collet neck die ( just to uniform the neck) and I noticed that the necks were pretty tight on the collet mandrel, but nowhere near what it was like with the winchesters that I FL sized sans expander.

I'll try running a couple of the new starlines into my FL die without the expander and then see how hard it is to expand the neck with my collet die. Good idea... Thanks!

 

[Dirtrax]

Brand new unfired brass does have an Achilles heel which is a lack of lubrication. Even fired cases can be sticky. I have used two different lubes successfully; Imperial Sizing Die Wax and their dry lube. I prefer the dry mostly because I need only wipe the outside of the case rather than both inside and out. This may be just me but I also "season" the mandrel by lubing first, running the lubed case up and down (shy of sizing if the collet die is being used) and once it moves freely I go for it. It may take a couple of applications because I don't use enough to spooge all over at one time. Just an FYI.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Sorry haven't been around as much with work, no I don't use lee FL die, I use forster benchrest FL die's with the expander and spindle removed. I use powdered graphite I believe by Imperial on a cue tip and lube the necks inside if the lee collet/mandrel don't easily size the neck. Imperial wax on case outside when FL sizing.....little goes a long way. I do both sizing operations, the FL first and the neck collet die second on a summit cam over press and encounter no problem with needing a lot of force. Always clean the necks inside with 1 or 2 swipes with a nylon bore size brush to keep just a carbon coating on inside of neck. Hope that helps......

 

[DJ Fergus]

I loaded about 20 rounds last night and had some great improvements.

When sizing, I ran the case interested the die multiple times turning the case each time. I made sure to turn the case only 1/8 of the way on the last sizing to help knock down the ridges on the neck. I got <0.001 runout on quite a few case necks. When seating, I turned the case 3 times instead of 2 times. The majority of my loaded cartridges came out at 0.0015 bullet runout or better and only had a few that were close to 0.003.

I think the biggest help was turning the case in the sizing die multiple times. Even though doing this didn't work for me before, I think the ones I did before were under annealed causing some non uniform hardness in the neck. I think making the last turn of the case only 1/8 of the way around also helped.

I'll have to keep tinkering and see what ends up giving me the best results.

Savage 12BVSS & Dirtrax was spot on with their advice. You can also get a Redding body die to run the brass through prior to using the Collet die. The body die doesn't touch the neck at all.

 

[Tac-O]

Thanks for all the helpful tips! I will probably just go back to my regular process with my FL die and keep working to improve the process with my collet die. At some point I'll have to get a Forster FL die or Redding body die to try that method again.