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Generalized bullet selection for hunting….
- Thread starter nksmfamjp
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The Long Range Accubonds are a bit of a different beast. They're more of a secant ogive versus the regular Accubond, so they tend to be pickier about seating depth (jump to the lands). They can require a bit more tweaking during load development to get to shoot well.
They're also made with a softer core. I've had random issues with about any Nosler bullet with accuracy though. Their heavily tapered jackets seem to have issues with all being concentric. If you get one that's not concentric, it can induce an imbalance in flight at end up as a flier on target, or wreck your shot placement on game. The further shot, the worse the effect.
Either version of Accubond tends to do well impacting above 1800fps, but being bonded requires good shot placement and a good deal of resistance upon impact helps too. Behind the shoulder shots, especially between ribs, can result in narrow wounding even at higher impact velocities.
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It really depends on what you think your lowest impact velocity would be. You still have sufficient sectional density with that overall you won't experience over-expansion even at closer ranges, but also with either, I'd not take a shoulder shot if your impact velocity would be above 2600fps. Instead, tuck it just behind the shoulder, just in front like in the brisket, chest, etc, depending on how the animal is presenting itself.
If you think you'd have a good chance of needing to take a shot where your impact velocity with either would dip below 2000fps, especially below 1800fps, I'd go with the ELDM, and honestly I'd prefer the ELDM overall.
From the results I saw with the ones I've used, I wouldn't have been able to tell it wasn't an ELDM, TMK, Berger Hybrid, etc if you didn't tell me.
The only reason I don't use them more exclusively, and don't recommend them overall over those others is only because of price, availability, and limited options they currently have. If/when that particular issue is no more, they may very well be my top choice and top recommendation.
In my 300 Blackout, when I still had it, the DRT was actually my top choice. I used it as my "alternative methods" gun. It was an AR-15 pistol, which is legal for use during that season here in Missouri. I only needed to reach around 100 yards max where I hunted during that season, so the bullets DRT makes specifically for that round were my top choice.
Honestly, they work so dang well, I truly would be using them rather than TMKs or ELDMs if they made more options in general, and then in a more efficient (higher BC) profile, as well as more options in weights for caliber sizes they already make. They used to make/sell a 200gr .308" bullet and those were really good with a pretty decent BC. They stopped selling that weight of bullets though, but I think might still offer them in loaded ammo. Not real sure on that though. I still have a few stashed away though. They were what I used in my 300wm.
To give the DRTs a more of a spotlight, as I truly believe they deserve:
For those that are either restricted to lead free bullets, or simply choose to go lead free, I want to be sure you're aware of other options out there for bullets that will still give you terminal performance similar to a traditional lead core bullet. Dynamic Research Technologies (DRT), is a small Missouri company that makes frangible bullets with a compressed metal powder core, free from any lead, that actually shoot really well and perform amazing terminally. I've used them personally in 223, 308, 300wm, and 300 Blackout and have always had extremely good results. I'd trust them used in any cartridge with any caliber/weight they make bullets for. Most versions of their Terminal Shock line feature a core made from both a powdered copper and tungsten combo. They use the tungsten to keep the density similar to lead so that the bullet dimensions are similar to a similar weight lead core bullet. Their 135gr version, made specifically for the 300 Blackout, only has a powdered copper core. There are pictures below of both versions. Both have a cap over the compressed core to help hold it together during the jacket swaging process as well as help control the expansion upon impact.
"DRT AMMO IS FOR HUNTERS
We are introducing to you a new, revolutionary line of hunting ammunition. Developed by hunters for determined hunters who are conscious about the environment and who appreciate supreme accuracy. We have field tested our ammunition on all continents under different weather conditions. Whether we were shooting 1000 yard shots in New Zealand on a Red Stag or in Alaska on a wolf, our animals never got away when a DRT bullet hit them.
That is the beauty of our frangible ammunition. Once you hit the body cavity, the bullet begins to come apart (after a delayed expansion of 2″) so that a terminal shock occurs in the organs and the animal will expire much quicker than with conventional ammo. There is no ricochet when impacting a rock or other hard body object, so you don't have to be worried about wounding other animals or injury to yourself or fellow hunters or guides.
DRT is the first company who figured out how to stabilize the frangible bullets in flight to achieve high accuracy, even at extreme range. We currently have 22 patents on our ammunition that allow us to be the best in the business of penetrating, frangible, ammunition."
That's a quote from their website. I'll post some links as well, below, to some videos showing terminal performance with them. So far, the only real downside to them is their limited selection and lower BC compared to other options out there. I think if they had more of a following and if more people invested in the technology, they'd be able to offer more selections and be able to produce higher BC versions as well.
https://youtu.be/w9DSRB21qkQ
https://youtu.be/aw94uHXzfP0
https://youtu.be/2Tsi9uEY8AQ
https://drtammo.com/videos/
It's really hard for me to summarize the answer to those questions.
I'll post again some rules of thumb regarding where I put TYPICAL limitations for the three main bullet types. And again, this is not an absolute at all and there are many factors that go into how a bullet actually performs and behaves once it impacts an animal. Please keep this in mind. The amount of sectional density the bullet has really affects these numbers and ranges.
•Impact velocity range for tough constructed bullets (Nosler Accubond, Nosler Long Range Accubond, the Hornady SST, Hornady Interlock, Hornady ELDX, Remington Core-Lokt, etc): 1800-2600fps, ideally. If impact velocity will be above 2600fps, avoid high impact resistance shots like shoulders. If impact velocity falls below 2400fps, and especially below 2000fps, aim for areas where impact resistance will be higher, particularly shoulders.
•Impact velocity range for soft/frangible bullets (Sierra GameKing, Sierra TMK, Hornady AMAX/ELDM, Hornady A-Tip, Berger Hybrid, etc): 1400-2400fps, ideally and depending on the particular one used. If impact velocity will be above 2400fps, avoid high impact resistance shots like shoulders. If impact velocity falls below 2200fps, and especially below 1800fps, aim for areas where impact resistance will be higher, particularly shoulders.
•Impact velocity range for homogeneous bullets (Barnes varieties, Hornady GMX and now CX, Nosler E-tip, Hammer varieties, Maker, Peregrine, GS Custom, Patriot Valley Ordinance, Lehigh Defense, etc.): 2200-3200fps, ideally for most designs out there. Honestly, as long as you will impact above 2200fps, I'd be aiming high shoulder to hit the thoracic brachial nerve plexus as well as both lungs. If impact velocity is going to be on the real high end, like above 3000fps, I'd reduce impact resistance so that you don't simply rip off petals and leave yourself with just a caliber sized hole going through the rest of the animal from just the shank of the bullet.
I think it's necessary to note too that there are some bullets out there that are a sort of hybrid on some of these designs. The Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame are two good examples. They feature a thin jacket at the ogive with a soft core to produce excellent initial expansion, and they have a base that is separated by part of the jacket. This keeps the base of the bullet completely separate and together- which allows it to still penetrate after impact. If you look at a cross-section of them, the jacket looks like an H, or A. They're essentially a soft point bullet and full metal jacket combined. This can be ideal for those close range/high impact velocity shots. There are also some tougher constructed bullets that attempt to offer a bit of both worlds as far as both tough and frangible. The Hornady SST, Hornady ELDX, Swift Scirocco II, Nosler Ballistic Tip, etc. are good examples. They feature jackets that are tapered in thickness and thin out towards the ogive. This enables them to initiate expansion at the front of the bullet, yet the jackets are thicker towards the base and/or they have a cannelure or bonding ring that helps adhere the base of the jacket to the base of the core. These are a good compromising design, but still have a higher minimum impact velocity than a true frangible bullet. They still have a tendency to penetrate poorly at high impact velocities, and expand poorly at low impact velocities. I give these types of bullets a rule of thumb impact velocity range still of 1800-2600fps because dipping below will only allow just the most forward section of the bullet to expend, which will result in unreliable and narrow wounding, and going over the max velocity will result in over-expansion and shallow penetration.
Beyond what I just posted in reply, steep quartering shots with any bullets are risky. Any target, even an animal, that's at a steep angle from how the bullet would impact it, has the high potential for deflection. If that's the only shot you think you have, I'd recommend avoiding the shoulder and if it's quartering-to aim more for the chest/brisket. If it's quartering-away, tuck the shot in just behind the shoulder to try to get in below the shoulder blade and behind the socket. You should still get into the lungs and heart that way.
I also do not like head shots, as it's a relatively small target and the skull leaves a lot of potential for bullet deflection as well.
Texas Heart Shots are you be avoided too, as it's asking so much from the bullet to penetrate through the entire guts and then into the more vital organs. Plus, by going through the guys, you typically ruin a fair amount of meat from gut material being strewn all over the place. It's no fun at all to process an animal successfully taken with that shot either.
If you have any other specific questions that I didn't cover, please ask.
This previous post of mine has a lot of good info and considerations too on how to pick the right bullet for your particular needs. My book will be a much more thorough version of this though.
www.longrangehunting.com
Selecting a Hunting Bullet
Selecting a Hunting Bullet When it comes to selecting a hunting bullet, and contrary to popular belief, bullet weight and/or retained energy isn't the all-deciding factor on penetration and overall terminal performance. Actually, it all depends greatly on how the bullet is constructed, the...
I really appreciate those very kind words, thank you. I'll be sure to make a post here in the forum when it's done and ready.
Yep, I am aware of the options. Cheers!
TheSouthpaw
Well-Known Member
What barrel length, and what speeds are you getting with the 168 and 162 from the 7mm-08?
Rifles are twins, both Remington 700 SPS Buckmasters with 24" factory barrels.
Mine with the 168gr Hybrid, 43.5 gr of H4350 and GM210M, I'm getting 2,590 fps
Wife with the 162gr AMax, 44.5gr of RL16 and GM210M, she's getting 2,625 fps.
For deer, both bullets are still at 1,800 fps or just above that at 550 yds (500m).
For mine I was also planning on trying out the 160gr TMK that we talked about yesterday, because I was low on the Bergers. But I found some Bergers to cover me a couple more seasons, and then I started running low on the 160gr TMK as well.
The way we are going with the 7mm bullet availability we are going to have to change cartridges
