G7 BR2 Rangefinder Feedback

[Broz]

One more question, how are you guys doing wind dope if you don't carry a weather station?

Jeff

 

[Greyfox]

One more question, how are you guys doing wind dope if you don't carry a weather station?

Jeff

I use a very slick wind meter that is sold by Huskemaw. It's a top quality, Swiss made meter that fits in the palm of my hand and works like a champ. Been using it for a couple of years. The G7 will easily accept the wind speed using a pair of buttons along side the ranging button that toggles wind speeds, and gives the MOA correction for your load. The wind correction is driven off the actual ballistic solution for your load.

 

[Broz]

I use a very slick wind meter that is sold by Huskemaw. It's a top quality, Swiss made meter that fits in the palm of my hand and works like a champ. Been using it for a couple of years. The G7 will easily accept the wind speed using a pair of buttons along side the ranging button that toggles wind speeds, and gives the MOA correction for your load. The wind correction is driven off the actual ballistic solution for your load.

I don't see how that is not the same as carrying a hand held weather station like my kestrel. I hear things like "its nice to not carrying a pda, rangefinder and weather station" "use and carry less equipment" and " I wouldn't have had time to use 3 devices". The only difference I see is instead of having to enter the distance and shot angle it is automaticly done in the built in program. I used the G7 wind corrections when I was testing it myself. To me it is more work than a good ballistics app. The reason I say this is due to the fact it steps in 5 mph winds. Also it only does full value winds. With a ballistics app I can simply enter a 7 mph 10 o:clock wind and dial it. With the G7 on a 7mph 10:00 wind I would have to look at the correction for the 5 mph then the 10 mph and choose what is in between then, reduce that again if it was not a full value wind. So to me this was a weak point. This is another thing that I feel is more relevant the farther you go out and why I agreed with Shawn Carlock on my review that it was a good unit and better at closer distances than longer distances. Don't get me wrong, I like the unit but it does have limitations just as it has some very nice strong points. But readers need to understand both.

Jeff

 

[Greyfox]

I don't see how that is not the same as carrying a hand held weather station like my kestrel. I hear things like "its nice to not carrying a pda, rangefinder and weather station" "use and carry less equipment" and " I wouldn't have had time to use 3 devices". The only difference I see is instead of having to enter the distance and shot angle it is automaticly done in the built in program. I used the G7 wind corrections when I was testing it myself. To me it is more work than a good ballistics app. The reason I say this is due to the fact it steps in 5 mph winds. Also it only does full value winds. With a ballistics app I can simply enter a 7 mph 10 o:clock wind and dial it. With the G7 on a 7mph 10:00 wind I would have to look at the correction for the 5 mph then the 10 mph and choose what is in between then, reduce that again if it was not a full value wind. So to me this was a weak point. This is another thing that I feel is more relevant the farther you go out and why I agreed with Shawn Carlock on my review that it was a good unit and better at closer distances than longer distances. Don't get me wrong, I like the unit but it does have limitations just as it has some very nice strong points. But readers need to understand both.

Jeff

I agree Jeff. Having followed the posts of the ELR shooters on this site, once you get too far beyond 1000 yards, it becomes a different ball game, and like yourself and others, my preferences in equipment and approach follow yours quite closely. This is the reason I stress my max big game hunting range for predominately white tail, and some mule deer and antelope at 1000 yards. Set up time is by far the single biggest factor that impacts my success in the areas and terrain I hunt. I have found a radical improvement for this type of hunting using yardage turrets, with the 10 mph wind dopes scribed above the yardage marks. I don't bother with a calculator. For 1000 yards and under I can quickly factor the wind dope in my head and be very accurate. This combined with the G7's speed of ranging, collecting conditions, and displaying actual and corrected yardages instantly has gotten me a few good animals that I likely would have not had a chance with my previous approach.
Art

 

[Broz]

Different hunting terrain and quary require different methods for sure. I just never take a long range shot that requires me to rush. I am a strong believer in the slow hit is better than a fast miss method. I hate to rush a shot!! But for my type of hunting there is usually plenty of time if we are not too close. This past season I helped a 13 yr old take his first bull at 555 yards. Then I got a phone call and after the call I let his dad take a cow with my rifle at 535 from the same herd. They didn't know where we were and didn't spook. Plenty of time to coach both shooters through the shot , re-ranging,redialing and all.

Like I said I like the unit and have recommended it to some that I feel it would work well for. But with that recommendation I have warned of the large beam and how it could bite you. I seen what it does right next to my Vectronix and I know the Vectronix does not lie. I think you would have to compare them side by side to detect the mis-ranges. Like I said in my review, at 600 yards it was only 3 or 4 inches off as far as bullet impact and that is still a dead animal. But it could really get you way out there. Bottom line is, the beam is huge. I set the unit up for failure and found it's weak points, along with it's strong points.

Jeff

 

[Greyfox]

Different hunting terrain and quary require different methods for sure. I just never take a long range shot that requires me to rush. I am a strong believer in the slow hit is better than a fast miss method. I hate to rush a shot!! But for my type of hunting there is usually plenty of time if we are not too close. This past season I helped a 13 yr old take his first bull at 555 yards. Then I got a phone call and after the call I let his dad take a cow with my rifle at 535 from the same herd. They didn't know where we were and didn't spook. Plenty of time to coach both shooters through the shot , re-ranging,redialing and all.

Like I said I like the unit and have recommended it to some that I feel it would work well for. But with that recommendation I have warned of the large beam and how it could bite you. I seen what it does right next to my Vectronix and I know the Vectronix does not lie. I think you would have to compare them side by side to detect the mis-ranges. Like I said in my review, at 600 yards it was only 3 or 4 inches off as far as bullet impact and that is still a dead animal. But it could really get you way out there. Bottom line is, the beam is huge. I set the unit up for failure and found it's weak points, along with it's strong points.

Jeff

Jeff, The one thing I was curious about with the Vectronix was whether it has a near/far capability like the G7. I'm wondering if this feature in the G7 compensates for the wider beam for difficult ranging conditions. When I was unable to get a reading in standard ranging mode with the G7(or my Leica) on difficult targets, or game that had interferences like hills or sagebrush, I was able to get a good reading and make an accurate shot when I switched the G7 to near/far ranging modes. I only did this out to 1300 yards or so, but it worked well. I mention this because I have spoken to a few G7users that don't bother to use this feature and miss out on opportunities.

 

[Broz]

Jeff, The one thing I was curious about with the Vectronix was whether it has a near/far capability like the G7. I'm wondering if this feature in the G7 compensates for the wider beam for difficult ranging conditions. When I was unable to get a reading in standard ranging mode with the G7(or my Leica) on difficult targets, or game that had interferences like hills or sagebrush, I was able to get a good reading and make an accurate shot when I switched the G7 to near/far ranging modes. I only did this out to 1300 yards or so, but it worked well. I mention this because I have spoken to a few G7users that don't bother to use this feature and miss out on opportunities.

In my review I did test this. Like in the test with the water sprinkler and switching it to "far"allowed the beam to pass through the water. This was not the problem I am discussing though. The problem I had was with the beam picking up unwanted targets even when on "far" like the sage brush before the antelope and the closer hill I was trying to range just above to the farther hill. All of these well under 1000 yards too.

The Vectronix does not need a different mode. The beam is small and powerful and as long as you are steady on the target it gives a range. I used the vectronix to find what was at the repeated distance that the G7 was giving.

Here is a copy/paste on the Beam Divergence testing from my review I did, and what I found.

"Next test, Beam Divergence. All the targets used to test the ballistic solutions of this unit were decent sized rocks on a hillside. I did this on purpose as I was only testing the shooting solutions and field conditions of the unit. It did well on these type targets that had no other near by cover. As I took all 3 units out with sand bags to find hard target to range things started to change. Remember, I was setting the unit up to fail, and it did if, I let it. First target was a good sized rock just visible by shooting over a nearer hill. The PLRF10 and the Leica 1200 positioned solidly on sand bags quickly reported the rock was at 940 yards. The G7 reported 750 yards catching sage brush on the nearer hill. So for this I made sure I was indeed on the "F" farthest mode (as per manual "F" " allow objects such as brush and tree branches to be ignored so that back ground targets are acquired") and kept trying. The only way I got a close reading was to go above the target and work down until it grabbed the closer brush then take the last far reading which was about 10 yards farther than the intended target. Again, this was an extreme condition, but one that surely could present it self and has for me before. The best way to combat this again is, know your RF and practice with it often so you will know where it shines and more important where it falls short. To be fair, I wanted to get this baby on some game. We don't eat rocks and brush and some can be more reflective that others making the last test unfair if the nearer brush was more reflective. So off to find something with hair. I soon located a small group of antelope in some small rolling hills with sage and other low ground clutter. I set up all 3 RF's and started ranging. The Leica 1200 came in with 3 consecutive ranges of 673, 674 and 673. The PLRF10 banged away on the same goat 3 times 674,674, 674,. The G7 readings in the mid 650's. Shooting over the animal and slowly bringing the reticle down showed the distant ground past the goat and once again as I slowly lowered the reticle I got a reading 20 some yards short. I then grabbed the PLRF10 to find the problem. The G7 was indeed ranging a nearer bush in line as I got a matching reading off this bush with the PLRF10. I made many attempts to get the actual goat and the G7 never would. Below is a picture of the goat taken through my spotting scope. The center doe was the chosen one. Again this is a tough target!!! Why? because there are more reflective bushes close by and over her back is only the farther ground. She is standing on a little rise and the nearer bush in line is what we got with the G7. If this was a deer or elk on a hillside the point of reading would have been less important as all objects are closer to the same plane. Flat ground ranging is tricky stuff and requires a small beam divergence to get what you want to range. Now how bad was this failure at 670 yards? With my 300 win the 20 yard mis-range would be roughly 1/2 moa, that is only 3 1/4" the goat would be a dead critter and you may never know the difference. But as you go out it will get you. A 20 yard mis-range at 1000 shown as 980 would now be a 3/4 moa miss and could easily get you in trouble. Also remember the farther you go the larger the beam gets and this can result in more severe inaccurate readings as there is more to pick up on."

If anyone is interested, the field testing write up in full can be found here.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/my-field-test-g7-br2-rangefinder-97338/

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Greyfox, I want to add I didn't have a problem getting a reading from the G7. It gave me a number until I got out there past where I would use it. The problem was what it was actually ranging and what I wanted it to range.

Also may I ask what Leica you were using? Was it the older discontinued flat 1200 or one of the newer 1200 or 1600 CRF's?

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Jeff and Art, thanks for some great input!

Jeff, I went back and re-read your writeup and see that you did aim a little high to get above the clutter and range a target. But you also had another RF to confirm the correct distance.

Seems to be some inconsistency in the results with Art being able to range and shoot a coyote @ 1000+ yds and Jeff's testing. Not sure what's going on there as Jeff did test the various modes?

Right now I have a Leica 1200 and 1600 and getting very mediocre results with them. Maybe not holding steady enough?

I greatly like the MOA solution ability of the G7 in one unit. As for wind, I don't see myself shooting to 1000 yds at game in winds much higher than 5 mph, at least not til I get a lot more experienced. Printing up some wind correction charts for a couple of wind speeds and anticipated hunting elevations is an acceptable solution for me with the wind meter Art mentioned.

So I guess at this point I am leaning to getting a G7 and giving it a go. I sure hope that with practice I can consistently range goats and deer on the sage plains with the G7.

Jeff, if you're ever out testing your unit again this winter, I would love to swing up and check it out and bring my Leica's as well to maybe compare with your Leica.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[Greyfox]

Greyfox, I want to add I didn't have a problem getting a reading from the G7. It gave me a number until I got out there past where I would use it. The problem was what it was actually ranging and what I wanted it to range.

Also may I ask what Leica you were using? Was it the older discontinued flat 1200 or one of the newer 1200 or 1600 CRF's?

Thanks!
Jeff

Jeff, I was using the Lieca Geovids. My buddy was with me for a few days with his Leica1600 which performed qute similarly to my Geovids. I think I wasn't very clear on how I was using my G7 and how I was able to get good readings on the 1000+ yards coyote and other animals that were difficult targets. To get a good range when a hill or brushwas interfering, whether in the foreground or background I would toggle between "both" the near and far modes and be able to distingquish whether I was ranging the interference or the animal. Even if the sage was interfering a few yards in front of the animal I could determine this difference with two separate readings and determine the correct range on my target. The near and far modes do not mean that you use the mode at short range or long range, but whether your interference is in the foreground or background, regardless of range. I didnt realize this at first. It took some practice, but after a couple of days I could use this capability very effectively to get accurate ranges on difficult targets. If I could get a view of the animal that was good enough to take a shot, I could get a range. This was the circumstance that neither Leica model would get a reading at all but the G7 would range each, the animal and the interference using near/far. It's certainly not as efficient as using the narrow beam and ranging directly on the animal with the Vectronix but it works. The beam of the G7 is sufficient to range whitetail does in the open at 1300-1350 yards. It does require a rest and placing the animal in the center of the circle. When I was able to get a reading on my Geovids they were within a few yards of the G7's. This range is at the extreme limit of the Geovids capability. I limit my shots to around 1000 yards so this is academic for me. Art

 

[Broz]

To get a good range when a hill or brushwas interfering, whether in the foreground or background I would toggle between "both" the near and far modes and be able to distingquish whether I was ranging the interference or the animal. Even if the sage was interfering a few yards in front of the animal I could determine this difference with two separate readings and determine the correct range on my target.

Hmmmm, if that is what it takes to determine an accurate distance I will pass and gladly use a small beamed rangefinder and my ballistics app. Plus I still do not feel you can be sure you were indeed ranging the animal. Unless like you did while testing and confirmed it with the smaller beamed Leica. I don't see now how some feel all that is faster.

Thanks for clarifying this.
I may do more testing with the G7 just to see for myself. But I am not sure anything will be different from my first field testing.

Thank You!!
Jeff

 

[bigngreen]

The whole near/far thing has been in range finders for years, nothing new. All my Bushnell range finders had it and I got handy at switching between modes to determine if the game was near or far, really sucked!!!
I really kinda want the G7 but have been holding back for the Vectronix cause I know I can't just stop shooting at 1400 yards so the G7 would actually make me pack twice as much crap to cover the ranges I would shoot.

 

[Greyfox]

In the end I think discussing rangefinders is becoming a lot like discussing caliber choice. Experiences, hunting style, and success shapes ones opinion. After years of using the conventional approaches, and multiple devices, with a good degree of long range success, i find that after a full season and several good long range kills, some in pretty tight spots, the G7 is a definite keeper for me.