Free Range Hunts Vs. High Fence

[NeedForSpeed]

You can't compare animals taken from a high fence to the wild. You can compare a big high fence operation to free range hunting in some ways but you cannot compare the 2 when it comes to the animals themselves. In one instance you animals that can be feed high doses of antler building minerals and digestible proteins year round. Add in predator control to remove the stress constant awareness of human scent associated with feed. Sounds also associated with feed.
In the wild predators can move them out of the area weather same thing. Run you atv into a buck's bedroom on public land and it isn't close.
The argument of comparing big game fishing to fenced hunting high low doesn't matter isn't realistic. The only comparison would be fishing around/in the farming pens being used today. No matter what that tide is going to change with some species they will move about a mile with pelagics if the food source is good/great they move 9 miles. If it is marginal and they straightline the next time they feed will be about 24 miles from where you just caught them.
Using a guide for a fair chase hunt might be easy for the client to be successful but the work is being done. If public land is involved it's still a crap shoot. Private land with controlled access might seem easier however if the animals can leave. The guides don't babysit the client bad hunters can still screw it up. Weather can push them out of the area etc.
We have released bird hunts up here. Been to a bunch when I was younger. Not to shoot birds per say but to run/train the dogs. It's fun but it doesn't compare difficulty wise to hunting wild birds in most areas. Same with ducks did alot of duck hunting as a kid and learned from very good duck hunters. I went on a duck shoot competition I won at a sporting clays event. You were to shoot the pair released and keep shooting till a miss. I shot 24 ducks on 15 shells. Had I more shells I would have shot more ducks. Being raised they tended to fly in draft more than side by side like wild ducks. As soon as the rear duck would start to flare you shot and they folded. Wild mallards you need to wait till they cross for shoot twofers. Happens enough to do it. However you wouldn't fold up 2 dozen in a month of trying with 1 shot a pair

have you heard of FADs? Fish Attraction Devices? They can be natural or man made.
Boat wrecks, Oil rigs, rock rubble, etc. does fishing them make the catch less legitimate? Not according to most fishing tournaments.

Is chumming fish up to catch them improper or illegal? Answer-NO

Is any of this analogous to hunting with feeders or on private land with guides and feeders? Is it similar to hunting in large enclosed spaces? Thats up to everybody to decide. If its not for you dont do it!

We all do things that increase our chances of success in different ventures, depending on our time. passion and skill set. If you are advanced and enjoy a complete DIY experience, more power to you and you can revel in your superiority.
If you play golf and take advantage of your "handicap", how do you justify that?

 

[1Moose]

I've never done fenced hunts. While it seems entirely different in difficulty, if it brings someone enjoyment, puts meat on their table, and creates positive experiences for them, family, and friends, thats a positive. Seems the animal likely lives a far better life than industrial raised animals (aside from potentially the last minutes or hours in cases with folks lobbing lead at any and all parts of the animal per a couple of posts). I don't know anything about the land management issues referenced by others, but perhaps a downside with lots of adjacent high fence operations Is they might prevent truly wild animals from migrating / moving as could be important long term (if I picture the proliferation of high fence operations correctly)?

 

[Capt RB]

have you heard of FADs? Fish Attraction Devices? They can be natural or man made.
Boat wrecks, Oil rigs, rock rubble, etc. does fishing them make the catch less legitimate? Not according to most fishing tournaments.

Is chumming fish up to catch them improper or illegal? Answer-NO

Is any of this analogous to hunting with feeders or on private land with guides and feeders? Is it similar to hunting in large enclosed spaces? Thats up to everybody to decide. If its not for you dont do it!

We all do things that increase our chances of success in different ventures, depending on our time. passion and skill set. If you are advanced and enjoy a complete DIY experience, more power to you and you can revel in your superiority.
If you play golf and take advantage of your "handicap", how do you justify that?

How can you compare a fenced hunt to the friggin ocean?? Your in Fla you deal with the stream on the east coast. You should know that the sword bite that was 35 miles south of Stuart yesterday will have that same group of fish off Stuart in less than 18 hours in the spring. For the next 2 months the east side of the stream will have the monster fish running south for the spawn. Know your species well enough and you will see in the data exactly where to be. Know how the tide works over structure in your area and you will know exactly what time to be in that spot to capitalize on it. Fishing the rigs of the gulf will put them on the structure. Knowing what data to look at for your species of choice will put you on the correct rig for that species. Knowing which tide to fish that rig to capitalize on those environmental anomalies to maximize your time/effort takes education. That education needs to be paid for. How you pay is your choice. Guide/charter time on the ocean or both.
This is the type of information I provide daily during the fishing season. In the last 3 years 3 first overall tournament wins 39 different calcutta pots. Every customer had a 1,2or3rd place in some form in every tournament over those 3 years.
There are charter capts up here that make there own fad's and because our bluewater fishing starts 80miles from the beach it has it's advantages. But if the water isn't conducive for the target species doesn't really matter. It's the same with a temp break if the salinity level is not right and your underwater temps are not inverted to congregate the bait you go fishless or get 1s and 2's vs a boatload. We had a poor year for swordfish. Yet my clients all caught or hooked swords when they targeted them every trip this season.
The reason for that relies more on regulations than poor fishing. With the offshore monuments that Obama enacted. He concentrated the longline fleet where the rec boats normally fish. Becaus e they don't have the range to reach the seamounts 190 miles offshore they cannot capitalize on those regulation changes. However even with a constant pressure of 4+ longliners working the same areas we had a few monsters caught as well as 3 of my clients getting spooled due to being in water deeper than their line capacity(in 1 case 13900' of water)
Don't even get me started on what the wind farm work is doing to our area. Just the electromagnetic interference alone will change the fishing in such a bad way it will put alot of small boat operators right out of business. All this is documented and they are doing it anyway

 

[KyCarl]

I think all tournament fishing should be Outlawed! High teck boats with 35K worth of electronics using basically hand made reels loaded with 1/2 mile of 300# Deema braid.
5 or 6 guys ganging up against one fish WHY just so they can say they did it.
Then you get the idiots who want to do it with 20# class tackle and wear the fish down so bad they might as well keep it the chances for survival are slim at best.
Be Sporting do it Old Man and the Sea style in a little dinky boat with a handline??
There is a noted TV angler who PAID my dad and I to pre-fish for him! They don't go in cold. He knew where to start..We gave him GPS numbers.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

How can you compare a fenced hunt to the friggin ocean?? Your in Fla you deal with the stream on the east coast. You should know that the sword bite that was 35 miles south of Stuart yesterday will have that same group of fish off Stuart in less than 18 hours in the spring. For the next 2 months the east side of the stream will have the monster fish running south for the spawn. Know your species well enough and you will see in the data exactly where to be. Know how the tide works over structure in your area and you will know exactly what time to be in that spot to capitalize on it. Fishing the rigs of the gulf will put them on the structure. Knowing what data to look at for your species of choice will put you on the correct rig for that species. Knowing which tide to fish that rig to capitalize on those environmental anomalies to maximize your time/effort takes education. That education needs to be paid for. How you pay is your choice. Guide/charter time on the ocean or both.
This is the type of information I provide daily during the fishing season. In the last 3 years 3 first overall tournament wins 39 different calcutta pots. Every customer had a 1,2or3rd place in some form in every tournament over those 3 years.
There are charter capts up here that make there own fad's and because our bluewater fishing starts 80miles from the beach it has it's advantages. But if the water isn't conducive for the target species doesn't really matter. It's the same with a temp break if the salinity level is not right and your underwater temps are not inverted to congregate the bait you go fishless or get 1s and 2's vs a boatload. We had a poor year for swordfish. Yet my clients all caught or hooked swords when they targeted them every trip this season.
The reason for that relies more on regulations than poor fishing. With the offshore monuments that Obama enacted. He concentrated the longline fleet where the rec boats normally fish. Becaus e they don't have the range to reach the seamounts 190 miles offshore they cannot capitalize on those regulation changes. However even with a constant pressure of 4+ longliners working the same areas we had a few monsters caught as well as 3 of my clients getting spooled due to being in water deeper than their line capacity(in 1 case 13900' of water)
Don't even get me started on what the wind farm work is doing to our area. Just the electromagnetic interference alone will change the fishing in such a bad way it will put alot of small boat operators right out of business. All this is documented and they are doing it anyway

I guess Im not sure what your point is. You are a charter captain so you make a living helping people less well skilled than you to catch fish.
Your friends make FADs to help them aggregate fish and make it easier to catch them and you seem OK with that. I get that it doesnt guarantee success but who here hasnt sat in a stand all day waiting for the targeted species to stop by the feeder and never saw an animal? That said, I think we can all agree it does improve your chances. Im not seeing a big difference there.

So to summarize you seem to be more than ok with helping people to get fish they wouldnt normally be able to catch- its actually your job to do that!
And you are ok with artificial things that increase the success of you and your friends.

So are you against feeders and stands? How do you feel about guided hunts? Or are you just against fenced in areas, regardless of the size? If the fenced in area was the size of Texas is it still a non legitimate hunt?

 

[Jr1972]

Keep trying to justify it by saying it's a really big pen. Pens get alot smaller when the animals are all pushed in one direction towards the guy shooting his fake trophy. This we all need to stick together mentality is a crock. If you don't hunt free range, then I don't want to be associated with you in any way. I'm a hunter, not a dick who shoots animals in pens. If you choose to kill animals in that fashion, knock yourself out, but don't call yourself a hunter. Hunting doesn't have guaranteed success rates and paying by the points.

 

[Capt RB]

I guess Im not sure what your point is. You are a charter captain so you make a living helping people less well skilled than you to catch fish.
Your friends make FADs to help them aggregate fish and make it easier to catch them and you seem OK with that. I get that it doesnt guarantee success but who here hasnt sat in a stand all day waiting for the targeted species to stop by the feeder and never saw an animal? That said, I think we can all agree it does improve your chances. Im not seeing a big difference there.

So to summarize you seem to be more than ok with helping people to get fish they wouldnt normally be able to catch- its actually your job to do that!
And you are ok with artificial things that increase the success of you and your friends.

So are you against feeders and stands? How do you feel about guided hunts? Or are you just against fenced in areas, regardless of the size? If the fenced in area was the size of Texas is it still a non legitimate hunt?

What fenced deer/animal is in the Boone and Crockett book?
I have been a guide for both hunting and fishing as well as hired one for both what's your point?
If you choose to hunt a feeder or over bait and it's legal who cares?
The guys putting in FAD's are not me or friends of mine. I've had to dive offshore to free up the prop from that trash is my reasoning not to. It works and some feel it gives them an advantage. It's not illegal in most cases.
I'm not against fenced hunting operations. It's not something I would do for big game. Comparing it to fishing in the ocean was all I was commenting on. Having an understanding as to how fish feed and how quickly they will change due to tide weather position of the sun in the sky and phase of the moon. This was what I was commenting on. If thinking that you put a feeder in just a general area without the thought of cause and effect of all the aspects involved will help you It will the degree will be based on shtuff luck vs actual understanding of the wants and needs of the species. Any species any habitat.
To prove the point in July every year we get a northerly weather system. As it clears the tuna change food patterns. You have 1-3 days of crystal clear skies. This shows a change in the light. Mid August we get the same weather pattern and the same clear sky for 1-3 days. On that you head to the woods looking for rubsas the mature breeding bucks shed their velvet. The next northerly set the rest of the bucks in descending age class from older to younger. If you don't find those rubs at the first weather front what do you think your chances are of finding a mature buck in that area?
These same things work for fishing you just have to know what they are and what they do to capitalize on them. That's it for the free lessons today
No different than food plots or cuttings to create second growth. Where legal who cares.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

What fenced deer/animal is in the Boone and Crockett book?
I have been a guide for both hunting and fishing as well as hired one for both what's your point?
If you choose to hunt a feeder or over bait and it's legal who cares?
The guys putting in FAD's are not me or friends of mine. I've had to dive offshore to free up the prop from that trash is my reasoning not to. It works and some feel it gives them an advantage. It's not illegal in most cases.
I'm not against fenced hunting operations. It's not something I would do for big game. Comparing it to fishing in the ocean was all I was commenting on. Having an understanding as to how fish feed and how quickly they will change due to tide weather position of the sun in the sky and phase of the moon. This was what I was commenting on. If thinking that you put a feeder in just a general area without the thought of cause and effect of all the aspects involved will help you It will the degree will be based on shtuff luck vs actual understanding of the wants and needs of the species. Any species any habitat.
To prove the point in July every year we get a northerly weather system. As it clears the tuna change food patterns. You have 1-3 days of crystal clear skies. This shows a change in the light. Mid August we get the same weather pattern and the same clear sky for 1-3 days. On that you head to the woods looking for rubsas the mature breeding bucks shed their velvet. The next northerly set the rest of the bucks in descending age class from older to younger. If you don't find those rubs at the first weather front what do you think your chances are of finding a mature buck in that area?
These same things work for fishing you just have to know what they are and what they do to capitalize on them. That's it for the free lessons today
No different than food plots or cuttings to create second growth. Where legal who cares.

hey Captain, I get that you don't see the comparison. That's cool. You're a professional and I respect your opinion, though I dont completely agree with it.
have a safe and happy New year and I hope to see you on the sword grounds one of these days!

 

[Capt RB]

 

[Riflehunter1776]

There are plenty of open range 200"+ deer taken every year across the country. But I would bet that 75% of them are taken with the aid of a guide. Believe me, I know some guides. And some of the guys that hire them. The guides bust their tails, and about half of the hunters that use them show up to camp, and the guide puts them on the animal and then it is over. I don't see a huge difference in that situation to a high fence hunt.

When you have 10 guys watching a particular deer or elk for weeks on end, and then calling your paying hunter, who flies in on his private plane, gets chauffeured to camp, diven out to the overwatch point, shoots the buck/bull on public land, and returns to the airport for the guide to care for the cape (and usually don't even claim the meat).....how is that different. Yes, I actually know of that happening more than once.

I've done a few high fence hunts, and have failed to see the deer I wanted (so, hunted hard and came away empty handed) as often as the other times that I've successfully taken one. If you go to a quality place, it is hunting. This notion that the deer are tame and stand there waiting to be shot is total baloney....at least in the places I have gone. They are cagey, alert, and intolerant of hunter mistakes. Maybe there are some places where the tame deer story is true, but I've never gone to them.

At the same time, I have taken a buck every year since 1996 during the PA deer season. Despite the horrendous hunting pressure, poaching, and competition that keeps deer smaller, I've never been skunked, let alone never ever failed to see a buck that I could shoot if I wanted to. Some years, I'll have a deer walk up to me in the first 5 minutes of daylight...boom, flop, season over. Other times I'll hunt hard until the closing saturday before I settle for one that steps out. Ironically, some of the biggest deer I have ever shot have been the easiest, while sometimes a small buck outsmarts me. So, the "sure thing" argument against high fences does not impress me any more than the "tame deer" argument.

A high fence does guarantee that there is a big buck somewhere nearby, and it guarantees that a bunch of jackA**es wont ride around your stand on 4 wheelers while you are hunting. The rest is up to you.

 

[Wisconsinvette]

Keep trying to justify it by saying it's a really big pen. Pens get alot smaller when the animals are all pushed in one direction towards the guy shooting his fake trophy. This we all need to stick together mentality is a crock. If you don't hunt free range, then I don't want to be associated with you in any way. I'm a hunter, not a dick who shoots animals in pens. If you choose to kill animals in that fashion, knock yourself out, but don't call yourself a hunter. Hunting doesn't have guaranteed success rates and paying by the points.

Basically my stance. I won't say people should not do it but call it what it is and don't pretend its on the same level of fair chase.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Basically my stance. I won't say people should not do it but call it what it is and don't pretend its on the same level of fair chase.

no one said it was on the same level. just that its not how some describe as shooting animals in a pen

 

[Albritton]

Well I'm born and raised a Texan .
Before moving out of the state 6 years ago I had hunted Texas for everything the state had to offer and still do when I have a chance to get back to the place I call home .
I have a friend who has more money than he knows what to do with and he has taken me on a many of high fence whitetail hunts on all the notable ranches across the state .
The ranches will give you what you want, you can hunt from a blind or you can hunt from a tree stand or ride around and shoot them from a top of a truck . I've been there when the big time Camo , game calls,
Archery manufacture or hunting show Guru's are there to film the hunts. I'm here to tell ya it's not hunting , it's shooting. My brother raises whitetail deer , axis ,elk on and on and I'm not talking about a few animals on 40 acres I'm talking about 4500 acres of animals. Lots of work involved. Animals are animals and no one can predict where or when they will show up in the wild even with food plots or feeders . Even if you do your very best to plant the best plots and feed the best protein
Doesn't mean you will have monster bucks But for the High fence ranches
They will be there and I assure you what you are willing to pay for you will some how get that dream buck .
It's shooting not hunting. The lazy man who is not a hunter pays for this so he can hang that big boy on the wall and lie to themselves and their friends what a fabulous hunter they are. I have these kind of friends with that kind of money to blow and I just laugh to myself because I know the truth .
Yes I have went shooting at their expense and will continue to do so . I have and will continue to tell them this is not hunting. It's really no different then if you went to the zoo for a African Safari. So the high fence is shooting and free range is much different. You can put the feed out but you can't make them eat.
Or you can have a drive to flush them out doesn't mean they will be there to flush out.
If your yard is fenced and you have a dog then the dog is there when you call
He will be there to eat when you feed him so he will be there to shoot if you like.
You decide . For me hunting is far different then shooting

I agree, I have a friend who is in the business of breeding and raising white tails for high fence operations, these deer eat from your hand, come when you call and love havin their backs scratched. I imagine they revert to being somewhat wild after being released but I personally could not hunt a high fence ranch after petting pen raised deer. I am not judging anyone just voicing my opinion on my experience with my buddies breeding business. Free range and naturally wild hunts for me.

 

[Albritton]

I hunt because I was raised that way. My dad and his buddies had a big camp, I hunted outta that camp from age 5 till I was 22. All the guys stayed together throughout that time. They slowly got to old to hunt or died off. Progress eventually took over the land and it is now just an awesome memory. It taught me a lot about life and what's really important. The outdoors, friendship, wildlife habits, ethics etc. The one thing it also taught me is you will never be an expert deer hunter and if you think you are then ya need to check your ego. There is no place for competition when it comes to deer huntin unless your competing with a deer. TV hunting shows have hurt our sport, they are not reality. If you really knew what goes on behind the scene to make it seem like these "experts" can walk onto a section of land and kill a wall hanger in 30 minutes of filming you would never watch one again. A trophy is what is a trophy is to the hunter who harvested it, not what somebody else thinks it is. You can spend $10,000 and kill a 200" deer on a high fence operation but I can personaly garauntee you it wouldn't mean as much to you as it would if you hunted a lone 125" buck on a small piece of private land all season before you finally outsmarted him. Then again it might................because some people are killers and some are hunters. What are you?