For those of you that use a NECO concentricity gauge or similar style...

[shortpants]

The runout I was speaking of was bullets seated crooked in the neck. Neck thickness variances would be back at the brass prep stage. It sounds like if I were to choose the NECO or Sinclair and I were to discover an occasional cartridge with to much runout I would just have to use those for foulers.
Thanks for the education guys!

 

[Clark]

I have the Sinclair.

I have modified it so I can measure relative to the shoulder taper with large cartridges.

 

[sp6x6]

I am not sure the Hornady Guage was intended to do much with the case neck. It contacts the bullet and only the bullet for proper alignment measurement. The bullet can be moved slightly, generally around .003 to .005 to get to .002 or less.

If you wish to put the guage on the neck that is fine, but it is not designed to do that in my opinion. I have never had a piece of Lapau brass, measured at the neck, be out of whack enough to worry about. However, bullets don't always seat straight with the cheaper dies.

I think we all talking about different things here. Bullet seating and neck alignment vs straight cases. I am only refering to Bullet seating and the alignment of the bullet in the neck of the case. The shallower a bullet is seated the greater the chance of bullet alignment issues. The Hornady guage does a VERY GOOD job at measuring this variance and the dial indicator quality is quite nice. IMO, it works as it should and gives you feedback needed to address any issues with cases or bullet alignment. It works well enough to give me 4 rifles so far all shooting under .3 MOA on factory actions, stocks, and barrels. Looking forward to a custom barrel soon. I want bugholes. : )

My hunting buddy has same as you, my sinclair gauge shows the ammo almost twice as bad, ei .002=.004.I run vlds and when I went to a vld chamferer my ammo is mostly .001 to .002

 

[shortpants]

That's the reason I'm leaning on the Sinclair or NECO. I have read several comments stating the same thing. I believe I'm going to give the Sinclair a try. Thanks fellas!

 

[Mikecr]

The Hornady neck-bender is a concentricity gage, and acts to conceal runout rather than showing it.
And with this, you can see ammo that is crooked as hell measure perfectly concentric(and it might be).
But straight ammo, while harder to achieve, is ALSO concentric, so you're better to mind runout.

 

[J E Custom]

I went with the hornady because I wanted the ability to straighten loaded rounds.
My chrono tells me that if i straighten one that is more than .004 runnout my ES is lower on that round. Therefore neck tention is compromised.
What I have learned is that if I have more than .003 runnout stop and identify and fix the problem rather than straighten.
That being said I think there are probably more precise gauges (neco) that I could have bought.

+1

It is nice to be able to straighten the run out on the loads that are within .002 or .003 for better
accuracy. There is no question In my mind that the best groups/accuracy comes with rounds that have no run out (.000 ) and groups deteriorate an run out increases.

I have found the same thing if I straighten rounds over .004 out the SDs suffer.

I have the Hornady also and like the ability to save some rounds. Buy the gage that has the features that you want. they will all help you to load better ammo.

J E CUSTOM

 

[newmexkid]

Did you ever look at the, Accuracy One Concentricity Tool. A little spendy but sure looks nice.

 

[Mikecr]

Did you ever look at the, Accuracy One Concentricity Tool. A little spendy but sure looks nice.

IMO, it's the best one out there.
New Wheel-Drive Concentricity Gauge from Accuracy One « Daily Bulletin

 

[shortpants]

I did check that one out and agree it looks quite nice. It is to rich for me right now though. Thanks for mentioning.

 

[tbrice23]

You can't fix runout by bending necks, and it's a bad idea to do this IMO.
The only way to fix runout is fireforming/refireforming. A die cannot do it.

The primary cause of runout is thickness variance of a case.
The initiator of runout is sizing, and misaligned sizing can also directly cause runout of course.
A minor contributor is misaligned seating.
To make straight ammo you need to address the actual source/cause of loaded runout.
Culling cases by thickness variance, neck turning, minimal sizing and seating with inline dies, etc.

Once you've made crooked ammo, you can adjust only eccentricity of it, possibly with a cost of increasing runout further(neck bending). But concentric ammo that is crooked won't chamber and fire the same as straight ammo. It's not the same thing.
You can make it straighter by firing it in your chamber, and then try again to size & load it straight as measured on a runout gage.
Work out the bugs a couple times & you'll get real good at it across the board.

The NECO is an excellent gage if you're set on it. I just prefer Sinclair, and I also prefer their neck turning system, and neck thickness gages, yadda, yadda. I spend a bunch there I guess...

Im getting 1000 pc of winchester .308 brass for a LR308. What I usually do with a new lot is full length size, flash hole deburr sort neck thickness with Redding neck thickness gage, keep the ones .0015 or less , neck turn 80% of the neck and hard into the shoulder, uniform p.p.,then weigh sort.
These are to be partial full sized and annealed every time. THIS BEING A GAS RIFLE, in your opinion would I be better off spending time on other things or am I on the right track?

 

[Mikecr]

turn 80% of the neck and hard into the shoulder

Whoa on the hard turn fella. Don't go crazy there.
I would invest in a neck mic rather than the Redding neck indicator, and cull brass not only on thickness, but thickness variance.
Drop case weight sorting(meaningless).

Sounds like you got a good plan to begin though.

 

[tbrice23]

I meant to say variance. (I keep those whose neck varies .0015 , supposedly the case is the same thickness variance all the way down).
I use a ball micrometer also. It verifies my dial indicator reading.

 

[majoralbi]

I have a Neco I'd be willing to sell. Like new, original box with manual.

 

[rcoody]

Im getting 1000 pc of winchester .308 brass for a LR308. What I usually do with a new lot is full length size, flash hole deburr sort neck thickness with Redding neck thickness gage, keep the ones .0015 or less , neck turn 80% of the neck and hard into the shoulder, uniform p.p.,then weigh sort.
These are to be partial full sized and annealed every time. THIS BEING A GAS RIFLE, in your opinion would I be better off spending time on other things or am I on the right track?

Why not buy Lapua and skip most of those steps. Don't believe I have ever culled a piece of new lapua brass.

I full length resize, check trim length never needs it, chamfer prime, load and shoot.

I anneal every 3 times loaded