Flier question

[BML]

Here's my gun specs to start:

Savage 6.5x284
140g AMAX
H4831SC
Norma brass
Federal 210 primer

Brass is neck sized every time and FL sized only when I start getting hard bolt closure/opening.

I have been able to tighten up my groups tremendously, but I am still getting fliers. I will almost always have two shots touching or in the same hole but not a third. I am still achieving .41 to .50 with the fliers, with a completely stock productions rifle and I am happy with that, but I just can't figure out why the fliers? There's no patter to which shot of the 3 shot group will be the flier either. When I test, I shoot one round, remove the bolt and wait 5 minutes for the barrel to cool. Then repeat. I don't shoot when it's windy. Assuming it's not the shooter, what else could be the possible culprit?

 

[Doublezranch]

Maybe a powder inconsistancy? I know with the IMR powders you get a spike when the powder is heated. Expecially 7828. For instance, leaving your shells in the sun while at the range. I found that keeping them in a cooler, works nice. The weather is so out of control here in ND that consitancy is hard to come by. Keeping them in a cooler takes the elements out of it. Maybe worth a try.....

 

[brentc]

You can usually tune out fliers by doing a seating depth test, or if you have a seating depth the the gun likes, try reducing or increasing your powder charge in small increments to fine tune the release of the bullet.

 

[BML]

Thanks for the tips so far. I appreciate it.

I can only shoot in the mornings up here because of the spring winds so I'm pretty sure its not a heat issue. I haven't played with seating depths at all yet, by I plan on it with my next round of testing. Maybe that will take care of it.

 

[johnnyk]

I shoot a Savage in 6.5-284 but rarely shoot the 140's. I always start with bullets at .010" off the rifling and go up in powder till I find the accuracy and velocity I want.

I usually start my power charge at 5% below book max and work up in .5gn increments to max if necessary. Usually somewhere in there I'll find a keeper. If the accuracy is there but not the velocity I'll push it looking for another accuracy node and keeping an eye for pressure signs.

I have been very pleased with my rifle. I used two bullets to sight it in at 25yds and the next three (first 3-shot group) measured .327". This is with no barrel break-in.

It started out as a 12BVSS but I swapped to a VLP model stock with another LRH member. This caused the groups to open up a bit (arrgghh) so I had Joe Collier in Millen, Ga. bed it for me and it settled right back down. Great guy, check him out; Welcome To CollierRifles.com.

What model do you have? Is 4831SC the only powder you've tried? I have had good accuracy with H4350, RL17, RL22, RL25 and AA3100 (no longer avail.). CCI BR2 is the only primer I've tried. JohnnyK.

 

[BML]

It's the LRH.

I started with 130 JLK's and RL17. Then moved to H4381sc. I have a serious free bore issue with my gun so I don't get my bullets anywhere near the lands. (relatively speaking, of course) The AMAX are the only bullet I've been able to group with any consistency. I started with 123's since a buddy gave me a box to test. I then jumped up to the 140's. Both shot nearly identical.

I'm pretty happy with the results I've achieved so far, but just wanted to make sure there's not something I'm overlooking in the loading process that is causing the fliers. Like I said, even with the flier I am still shooting in .41-.50.

 

[brentc]

It's the LRH.

I started with 130 JLK's and RL17. Then moved to H4381sc. I have a serious free bore issue with my gun so I don't get my bullets anywhere near the lands. (relatively speaking, of course) The AMAX are the only bullet I've been able to group with any consistency. I started with 123's since a buddy gave me a box to test. I then jumped up to the 140's. Both shot nearly identical.

I'm pretty happy with the results I've achieved so far, but just wanted to make sure there's not something I'm overlooking in the loading process that is causing the fliers. Like I said, even with the flier I am still shooting in .41-.50.

A small change in seating depth with your current load should fix you up nicely.

 

[BML]

Any suggestions on how much I should play with the depths? More specifically, what increments? I assume I will seat them out a little farther since I have plenty of room and will most likely never reach the lands.

 

[elkaholic]

Any suggestions on how much I should play with the depths? More specifically, what increments? I assume I will seat them out a little farther since I have plenty of room and will most likely never reach the lands.

If you could reach the lands, I would start there and back off .020" in increments. When you get the best grouping, try going .005-.010" each way from there. I would also suggest that before you do that, you might change primers and try the load you are now shooting. Sometimes that will solve the problem......rich

 

[boomtube]

Far more quarter-minute rifles are found on the web than on the range, with groups that small I doubt you're getting "flyers" at all. More likely you've found the finite limits of the accuracy of your factory big game rifle with common, off-the-shelf bullets.

 

[Browninglover1]

Far more quarter-minute rifles are found on the web than on the range, with groups that small I doubt you're getting "flyers" at all. More likely you've found the finite limits of the accuracy of your factory big game rifle with common, off-the-shelf bullets.

Definitely true. I had a guy at the range a few weeks ago with his 338 Lapua that told me he was sighted in dead on at 500 yards and was getting 3 inch groups at that range. Long story short, we were shooting at the 300 yard line and only 8 of his 10 shots even hit the paper. I was glad he was out there so I could have a good laugh that day.

 

[boomtube]

"...sighted in dead on at 500 yards and was getting 3 inch groups at that range."

Giving him credit for not lying (which may be more credit than he deserves), it's quite possible that he - and a lot of other guys claiming phenominal accuracy - got a really good three shot group ONCE and, rather than understanding it for the statistical fluke it is, thinks if everything worked right he could do it all the time. Not so. The hopeful/wishful stories they tell do get amusing tho.

 

[Browninglover1]

"...sighted in dead on at 500 yards and was getting 3 inch groups at that range."

Giving him credit for not lying (which may be more credit than he deserves), it's quite possible that he - and a lot of other guys claiming phenominal accuracy - got a really good three shot group ONCE and, rather than understanding it for the statistical fluke it is, thinks if everything worked right he could do it all the time. Not so. The hopeful/wishful stories they tell do get amusing tho.

My favorite part of the whole thing.... his POI was at the very bottom of the paper and when he missed it was low. How in the hell can you be sighted in at 500 yards and be low at 300? Between him and the guy that was shooting a 50 BMG that was proud of his dinner plate groups at 100 I had an amusing, and extremely loud, shooting session.

 

[Browninglover1]

BML,
Have you shot your rig at longer ranges? I have a Savage Predator 6.5 Creedmoor that is honestly a 3/4 MOA gun with the occasional 1/2 MOA group at 100 yards.

However, when I took it out on long range steel I fired two 3 shot groups at 960 yards that were both less than 6 inches. It blew my mind! Granted, that was a very small sample size and I will not claim that the rifle will do it every time, but it did it on two different occasions. I've also shot steel at 600 with it a few times and I swear the gun honestly shoots much better at longer ranges and the "flyers" I get at 100 seem to disappear. In a few weeks I hope to go out to the desert and shoot 10 groups at 1k to see what the true accuracy I can expect out of the gun at that range.

Like Boomtube has said, you're probably shooting perfectly within the accuracy limits of the gun and it just looks like you're getting flyers because of the occasional shot that doesn't stack on top of the others. Maybe you'll find something that brings it down to a consistent 1/4 minute gun, but if not 1/2 minute is all the better accuracy that most gunsmiths will guarantee and you got that for a whole lot cheaper