first time lapping rings

[misterc01]

As they say, proof is in the results with anything you do, and it works for me. The great thing with shooting is that we are all able to do what we think works best for us. I am curious as to your experience with lapping rings and why you feel it is not worthwhile or possibly detrimental.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

You should do some reading to see what pains a company like Talley goes through to get an even microscopic protective powder coat layer into your rings. They use multiple layers with different purposes. It is a very precise process, and then some of you are out there grinding it off with a sandpaper log, because it will be more precise than their $5million cnc machine and $million dollar computer powder coat bake machine

 

[azsugarbear]

Years ago, I decided to lap a set of rings - mostly out of curiosity. The result was surprising. I expected some light, even wear over the entire surface. What I got was pronounced wear in one or two places. Having been turned on a lathe, the steel bar used in the process was perfectly concentric - which left only the rings as being 'out-of-round'. I was amazed and shocked at how only a small part of the ring was actually in contact with the body of the scope. I would estimate less than 15% of the ring is making contact with the tube. This is true of both inexpensive and high-end rings.

Now 15% contact is probably enough to hold a scope, even with high recoil. But when I am spending thousands on a rifle, I want to eliminate any possible weaknesses that could negatively effect accuracy. The cost in time and money to lap rings is worth it to me for my own peace of mind. Like some have indicated, you can take too much off. I usually lap until I can see 30%-35% bare steel or aluminum on the bottom ring - suggesting I have at least doubled or tripled the amount of contact the ring will have with the scope.

 

[ratso000]

Talley count as quality rings and should not require lapping. I think I lapped one or two sets of rings and felt it was not worth it. I bought a inch/pound driver to ensure proper torque on my rings and feel that was one of the best moves possible.

I have 6 sets of Talley..the do not reccomend laping..this will void your warranty

 

[xFREDRICKx]

I understand it is an argument to lap and not lap. I understand precision machined rings shouldn't need it but if it were a one piece ring like the nightforce direct mount then i would see no need to lap. I plan on doing it for this rifle as it is my most expensive to date. If the lapping goes bad and wont hold the scope then i will take off the rings and get a set of Spuhr mount and 1913 base and bed the base. But for lapping do you do just the bottom ring or put the top of it on and lap both top and bottom?

 

[xFREDRICKx]

I have 6 sets of Talley..the do not reccomend laping..this will void your warranty

Every ring manufacturer i know of says not to lap. That doesn't mean it is wrong. if they said lapping was needing it would make it sound like their product is bad.

 

[Alibiiv]

I used to lap all of my rings, I will NEVER LAP AGAIN. I had a bad experience with overlapping a set of quality rings, the overlapping of the rings caused me tremendous amount of trouble on a custom 300 PRC rifle. I could not get that rifle to hold 2 MOA let alone 1/2 MOA due to the slightest scope slippage that I did not even notice until I took the scope off. After much thought and several hours of searching the internet I decided to "bed" my overlapped rings with JB Weld, (yes JB Weld). I will always do the JB Weld bed job on every rifle here forward.
I will try to find the link and pass it on, until then here is a picture post bed job.

Liddy
View attachment 262835

If you can find that link I would appreciate reading it. Thank you.

 

[azsugarbear]

Here's a good video talking about when lapping may be necessary:



You can get by without lapping in most cases. But once I saw how out of alignment rings become once mounted to a base (yes even quality rings and bases), the need for some lapping became apparent to me. Again, just enough to substantially increase the amount of purchase between ring and tube. More contact means less torque necessary to keep scope from moving on you.

 

[BrentM]

Bed.

 

[Alibiiv]

I have been lapping my rings for years and have never any difficulties with them at all. My thoughts are and it has my experience that it is a lot to expect as far as alignment goes to have two of three or more pieces that are mating in as many places to be in perfect alignment. "Unless" the rings are line-bored once the base/s and rings are mounted it will be nearly impossible to get a perfect alignment of all the integral parts. We're not talking about just the rings, we are talking about the scope bases being in alignment especially with a two base system. What pressure is exerted on the scope base by the screws that hold that base in place. There are a number of extraneous variables when assembling all of these parts and then expecting perfect alignment. I have Ruger 77s, so I am pretty much limited to the Ruger rings, however have done quite a few pairs of Warne rings and found that same results. Once the lapping starts I have found that the rings are out of round and it takes a bit of work to get that roundness into the rings. In addition I have found the holes in the rings out of alignment with each other and that condition is remedied through lapping as well. And yes if one overlaps that rings they could run into a problem with clamping pressure, however that seems to be an extreme to me. I respect everyone's opinion on this process, however if nothing else I cannot find any reason not to lap the rings.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

You guys do realize that the shape of the rings without a scope in them in not indicative of the shape with the scope in them...... right?

They are designed to flex to conform to your tube. As far as concentric alignment, if you are going through a proper progressive mounting process, where your rings are snug on your tube when you put your tourqe wrench on your bases, they will be in concentric alignment, unless they are so far out of whack that they are damaging your tube or your rail when you tighten them to spec, (which would blow my mind if it ever happened). Those torque specs are into the flex range of the ring material by design.

 

[JTComfort]

A few years ago, I bought a wheeler scope lapping kit for a new PRS set up on a Remington 700 (Schmidt Bender PMII, Badger Ord rail and M40 rings) - believing that lapping was a necessary step in achieving "precision." I used the metal pointers in my set up and once all the screws holding the rings to the rail and the rings themselves were torqued to spec, the pointers lined up perfectly. As an exercise, I went through my hunting rifles (some lapped and some not) and found them satisfactory. Other posters have offered "bedding" the scope, which I have not personally done. I believe your best friend is the torque wrench and Loctite. Quality mounts, rings and optics are reliably precise. And far more precise than the 800grit emery paper wrapped around a wooden dowel that we lapped our deer rifle scope rings with "back in the day." (Ugh....)

 

[ntsqd]

It starts with the base(s), how well do they fit the action? I bed all that I can. The one piece Talleys were a challenge because I felt that they needed to be clamped on the lapping bar while the bedding was curing.

Every ring set that I have lapped, from mid-high quality on down to cheap, has showed an irregular witness to the lapping. Maybe at the very high end of the scale they are truly round, concentric, and cylindrical, but none that I have lapped come even close to being all of those things. That includes a set of one piece Tally rings. Which, btw, due to the hidden fasteners couldn't be assembled to the scope and then torqued or even just screwed to the action. Not that I would ever ask the scope tube to try to force the mount and rings to correct their fit to the action.

The cynic in me says that the mfg's discourage lapping because they're afraid of what you'll find when you do lap the rings.

I lap until I have an 80%-90% witness, that is that 80%-90% of the inner surface of the rings shows sign of being lapped. With anodized aluminum rings or blued steel rings this is a very easy thing to see. Stainless steel and silver/clear anodized aluminum rings I would apply dykem first before lapping to make it easier to see where I'm getting contact and where I am not.

I have the Wheeler kit and I can't say that I'm a fan of it. The lapping compound supplied is far too coarse and I am not convinced that their bars are as round and cylindrical as they could be. I've considered making my own lapping bars from linear motion shafts. I use Clover valve lapping compounds, usually about 600 grit. It is not, and it should not be a fast process.

As to bedding, the fit of the rings to the scope via bedding could only be improved by first lapping the rings. Not because you're truing the rings, but to give the bedding compound some 'tooth' to adhere to. To do that I would use the Wheeler supplied compound because as coarse it is it will yield an excellent surface for adhesion of the bedding material.

 

[Deviant]

So i have never lapped rings before but since i spent some money on a schmidt and bender klassik on a new hunting sauer rifle i would like to lap my talley rings. Now, as i watch youtube their are various ways people lap rings. All relatively the same concept but has to do with how long you lap and do you keep tightening the screws down. Anyone have any solid video they trust on it or

So i have never lapped rings before but since i spent some money on a schmidt and bender klassik on a new hunting sauer rifle i would like to lap my talley rings. Now, as i watch youtube their are various ways people lap rings. All relatively the same concept but has to do with how long you lap and do you keep tightening the screws down. Anyone have any solid video they trust on it or some pointers?

It will void the warranty on most good quality Rings if you lap them. Find a video on bedding them and how to properly level a scope using a flashlight and plumb bob instead.