Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
I learned to anneal cases to prevent ruptures.
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Fire forming issues
- Thread starter bedrok
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I learned to anneal cases to prevent ruptures.
nicholasjohn
Well-Known Member
I also gave up on the cream o' wheat method, when I couldn't get it to work in the 30-06 Ackley. For a while, I necked the cases up with an 8mm mandrel, to make the secondary shoulder for fire-forming. ( I had to do this because the chamber had been set up with excessive headspace, and factory loads didn't always fire.) Once I got through hunting season with this process, I had the problem rectified. Now I just shoot a mid-range load to fire-form, without loading the bullets into the rifling like some guys recommend. I didn't think this was necessary, since I get a squash fit with firm contact at the neck-shoulder juncture. This has worked fine for years -accuracy is very good; velocity is about what you would expect from a 308 Winchester.
If I was to do another AI chamber, I might look into the hydraulic forming method. The decision on which way to go might even come down to dollars & cents - cost of the hydraulic forming dies vs. a couple of boxes of inexpensive bullets. If that was the determining factor, cheap bullets would probably win out, especially if I was only going to need a hundred fire-formed cases. If I was going to fire-form a whole bunch of brass for a prairie dog rifle, I would definitely do it in the field - on live prairie dogs. That's "multi-tasking" at its finest.
I anneal after every firing on my hunting rounds and after 2-3 on my varment stuff.
I have a .270 Ackley Improved that I had to learn how to fireform/make brass for. What I have found to be the simplest method is to fire form the brass with a medium load and a light bullet. Nosler blemish bullets can be picked up for a relatively good price from Shooters Pro Shop or other good shooting supply houses. I have a Hydro-from die, and STRONGLY suggest the Whidden Hydro form die and no other manufacturer; we'll leave it at that because I am really unhappy with mine!!! The cream of wheat process works in my rifle because the chamber is such that I do not have to make a false shoulder using .270 Winchester brass (my gunsmith did that), but.....it's still a lot of work and the shoulder does not flatten out like it does under the pressure of a fired bullet. And for the particular cartridge that you are loading for, you will have to make a false shoulder for the cream of wheat process. I am not an expert, but if you either fire form your cases or if you use the cream of wheat process, you have to develop either a false shoulder. And if you choose to fire form your cases will have to seat your bullets out far enough so that the base of the case is held up tight against the bolt face to get a good strike from the firing pin to set the primer off and...to prevent the case from moving forward. J E Customs is "right on" with what he wrote in his reply about making a false shoulder. From what you have written you pushed the datum line where the neck intersects/meets the shoulder too far back for your chamber, allowing the case to move forward in your chamber. If you do purchase a Hydro-form die you will not have to make a false shoulder or seat your bullets long as the die will push the shoulder of the casing out enough with water pressure so that the case will fit your chamber and fire. Please don't feel embarrassed, there's always something new for all of us to learn, and.......we all have to start somewhere.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
I never give it much thought when doing a new barrel I assess how many brass I need for the life of the barrel. Typically 100 to 200 pieces. By the time your done the barrel
1)will be broken in or very close to
2)have perfect brass.
3(know if there are certain bullets it hates.
Then you'd be ready to get it done.
Plus fire form loads can be tuned to shoot crazy good. I had a 243AI and 6BRA that routinely shot 1/4 moa so that gives you a good local match load or an accurate game load.
I saw someone say they skip lube on body when fire forming. Don't. Even a shell with a .001 setback will get .006 to .010 of the shoulder driven back when the firing pin strikes. You definatly want that base to slide back on the bolt face before it fills in the new areas. Any body can test this by just meaduring before and after with a live primer. Who would think a firing pin fall would crush the brass any at all.
Shep
1)will be broken in or very close to
2)have perfect brass.
3(know if there are certain bullets it hates.
Then you'd be ready to get it done.
Plus fire form loads can be tuned to shoot crazy good. I had a 243AI and 6BRA that routinely shot 1/4 moa so that gives you a good local match load or an accurate game load.
I saw someone say they skip lube on body when fire forming. Don't. Even a shell with a .001 setback will get .006 to .010 of the shoulder driven back when the firing pin strikes. You definatly want that base to slide back on the bolt face before it fills in the new areas. Any body can test this by just meaduring before and after with a live primer. Who would think a firing pin fall would crush the brass any at all.
Shep
a snug false shoulder is 100% positive headspace and case won't move in chamber if done right, I've necked and fireformed 30, 338 & .423" case mouths to 7mm & 6.5 mm with no losses and necked same cases up to 375 & 408 with all intact, used Norma, Lapua and Peterson brass
after necking down and annealing, My cases get walnut hull tumbled then corn cob polished then cow fireformed and fill out nice, I use an air compressor to blow out the action/chamber/barrel after each shot to insure no cow residue is present to dimple up the brass, never used oil or lube of anykind
25WSM
Well-Known Member
When I say lube the case it is for when you are using the moderate load application. I never used lube on my 6ppc brass either. No biggie at all I know there are so many post to read over and little details get missed. I never covered the top of the shell with packing either just keep rifle pointed up.
Another way to fire form the 6ppc was to just put cheap knock down bullets in the 22 size case and fire it down the 6mm barrel. Some felt it gave you straighter brass. I just know one great thing is we have many choices to do what we need done. When it comes to the world we play in Shootig Sports, what you want to do or design probably already has been.
Shep
Another way to fire form the 6ppc was to just put cheap knock down bullets in the 22 size case and fire it down the 6mm barrel. Some felt it gave you straighter brass. I just know one great thing is we have many choices to do what we need done. When it comes to the world we play in Shootig Sports, what you want to do or design probably already has been.
Shep
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Forgot about the other part as in a 100% perfect headspace fit round. Make one with a live primer and fire it empty. Most rounds will crush .006 to .008 shorter on one firing pin strike. I'm sure the thicker and the harder brass walls see less. I learned this from Mike Behlm. He proved that rimfires truly fire from a perfectly sized case. The Encore from Thompson Center will throw you a loop over headspace. He has article just on this alone. He is a very good read.
Shep
Shep
I used toilet paper to cap my cases with, I really like the idea of the wax a whole lot easier then stuffing paper in the tube!!
25WSM
Well-Known Member
You really don't need to cover the powder. Unless your 2 thumbs says you do.
Shep
Shep
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Yep. I have fireformed by keeping the rifle pointed up.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Goes fast with a helper. But I'm out of the ppc game now and compete 1000 yd b/r and local club shoots to 500. Fell fatally in love with 1000 yard and can't wait to try the long range stuff. Problem is money. 1000 yard is relatively cheap to do. 1-200 yard gets worse and real long range is real expensive. Back to the post just saying I bullet fire form everything now.
Shep
Shep
