Fine tuning loads lee factory crimp die

[FURMAN]

And my testing and the testing of many others has proven that not to be true. You can load with less neck tension, almost none at all but keep the bullets from walking by simply crimping.

Bench rest guys have been loading rounds so loose they'd all but fall out of the case for decades because they find it more accurate. Adding a crimp allows us to do the same thing without any worry of bullet walk.

I can literally load my rounds with my fingers and then just run them through the die for length, set the crimp and run.

I didn't believe it either until I tried it and compared the same exact loads, loaded traditionally, shot in the same rifles and significantly tightened up my groups ES, and SD down into single digits.

I've been shooting pretty well for decades and I'm shooting tighter groups today since starting this process than I've ever shot in my life using the exact same components and rifles.

Quite a few others have had similar results.

I might actually consider going back to that if 1) I could not get the accuracy I expected which is pretty high standards and 2) could not get the es I was after(which is really a waste if the vertical is non existent at long distance). I have tried every method I have read just to see for myself. I stand by every statement Ive made in this thread. If you are getting the results you desire great. I can assure you it is not the norm, especially as you stated, or benchrest guys would be doing it and make no mistake about it what they are doing absolute matters to long range shooters. 1)If you are not getting the accuracy/es you desire or 2) bullets are moving then you are doing something wrong. I am no rookie to this game. I have no problem getting my loads consistently under .5 moa vertical at distance. If you claim you are better than that then you are lying or should be wiping the floor in competition.

Look I don't have time to waste arguing. I think the OP can make a decision based on the reading in the thread.

 

[Korhil78]

I'm interested in knowing what comes of it but I will probably never do it. .002 neck tension is what I have stuck with and it works. I am not a benchrest shooter because competition shooting has never interested me but I do a lot of longrange shooting for practice and really enjoy it.

I have bought a lot of tools and gadgets along the way to eliminate certain variables that can cause ones loaded ammo to not perform well.

I load for the outing. Meaning I only load as much ammo as I'm going to shoot for that day. No loaded ammo sits in my reloading room and ages. When I hunt, I load up 20 rounds and whatever is left over gets shot for practice when I get back. I guess that's just a little OCD.

As for longrange shooting and hunting, I actually find it a lot harder to get a shot on an animal that is 800 yards or further just for the simple fact that when I see them they are either already well within my range of capabilities or they are too far out and by the time I get to a place to get a shot.....they are well within my capabilities haha. Not a bad thing.

 

[JDD]

That does make his statement make more sense but I load every one of my hunting rounds with .002 neck tension. I load everyone from a magazine. They are carried in trucks over countless miles of rough roads. I load my rifles in 4 wheelers over long distances. Never have I encounter an accuracy issue from a bullet moving. I completely understand the thought behind crimping and will NEVER do it. If you truly are concerned with a bullet moving add a little neck tension. So I will repeat it is not conducive to accuracy and I have never encountered an issue with the very thing it is trying to stop. Like I said early I can lead a horse to water but can not make it drink. Go ahead and crimp. It means nothing to me.

from my own personal experience. In 2005 I traveled to Namibia on a plains game hunt, were I shot 14 animals. I was hunting with a 375 h+h and a 416 rem mag . Both loaded with barnes tsx. Both rifles were tuned and function perfectly. A custom model 98 in the 416 and a Montana 1999 in 375. After harvesting a animal I would just top off the magazine. After about 3 days I noted problems with function in both rifles. The rounds at the bottom of the stack were exposed to 3 or 4 firings possible one or two more. They were growing in OAL due to repeated exposer to recoil. They grew enough to interfere with feeding.The dies were standard redding dies. a almost non existent crimp was used , case neck tension exceeded .002. You may take a sip now if you care to Its your choice.

 

[WildRose]

I might actually consider going back to that if 1) I could not get the accuracy I expected which is pretty high standards and 2) could not get the es I was after(which is really a waste if the vertical is non existent at long distance). I have tried every method I have read just to see for myself. I stand by every statement Ive made in this thread. If you are getting the results you desire great. I can assure you it is not the norm, especially as you stated, or benchrest guys would be doing it and make no mistake about it what they are doing absolute matters to long range shooters. 1)If you are not getting the accuracy/es you desire or 2) bullets are moving then you are doing something wrong. I am no rookie to this game. I have no problem getting my loads consistently under .5 moa vertical at distance. If you claim you are better than that then you are lying or should be wiping the floor in competition.

Look I don't have time to waste arguing. I think the OP can make a decision based on the reading in the thread.

And as I said, myself and quite a few others have proven it to work.

I'm not here to force anyone to change, I'm just here to share information and my own experiences.

No reason for people to take it as a personal insult when someone offers up a better way.

 

[WildRose]

from my own personal experience. In 2005 I traveled to Namibia on a plains game hunt, were I shot 14 animals. I was hunting with a 375 h+h and a 416 rem mag . Both loaded with barnes tsx. Both rifles were tuned and function perfectly. A custom model 98 in the 416 and a Montana 1999 in 375. After harvesting a animal I would just top off the magazine. After about 3 days I noted problems with function in both rifles. The rounds at the bottom of the stack were exposed to 3 or 4 firings possible one or two more. They were growing in OAL due to repeated exposer to recoil. They grew enough to interfere with feeding.The dies were standard redding dies. a almost non existent crimp was used , case neck tension exceeded .002. You may take a sip now if you care to Its your choice.

I had the same issue with several of my hotter magnums. Increasing the neck tension enough to eliminate it caused accuracy and pressure issues.

A light crimp solves the problems and adds only a couple of seconds to loading each round.

 

[bigngreen]

Bench rest guys have been loading rounds so loose they'd all but fall out of the case for decades because they find it more accurate.

Uhhh, running loose is a big not going to work in long range BR, as far as I know the top guys run .002 to .006 neck tension.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

I have a Lee crimp die for 6mm Remington and 7.62x54R...yeah I know...
The die works well especially on the bullets that have a cannelure groove. Can't hurt to try.

It seems best served in semi auto stuff. And, with short neck cartridges like a 300 Winchester.

 

[coop2564]

Some of you guys must have a lot of time to spend reloading. Many like me have to work 10 hrs drive 2 hrs do kids and homework and manage home repairs etc. Ill continue to do my inferior way of crimping to achieve my 4" at 500yds groups! And hunt all day not worrying about my inferior rounds and methods lol!

 

[bigngreen]

Not everyone is shooting normal ranges on this a long range forum, shooting small groups at long ranges give you the consistency from day to day, lot to lot of loaded hunting ammo.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

I spend a lot of time reloading...soothes my soul. Teaches me a lot too. It is satisfying to make something, or put it together from components and sometimes find a special load that improves my chances of success.

 

[Petey308]

Some of you guys must have a lot of time to spend reloading. Many like me have to work 10 hrs drive 2 hrs do kids and homework and manage home repairs etc. Ill continue to do my inferior way of crimping to achieve my 4" at 500yds groups! And hunt all day not worrying about my inferior rounds and methods lol!

You're not alone. I work the same hours. I have three young kids as well, and my life is extremely busy. I rarely get to spend time at my bench anymore, let alone go shooting or hunting. I'm grateful I spent the time before I had kids doing all this testing and experimenting.

I've said it more than once already in this thread, do what ultimately works for you. If you apply a crimp and it gives you the results you desire and are satisfied with, great. If you're able to take great care of your ammo to ensure things don't get compromised or bumped out of round, that's great too.

Applying a crimp may indeed be an inferior method compared to going through the work of annealing and doing a two-step sizing process using a mandrel, especially if you add neck turning to that process, but it doesn't mean your own results will be inferior. If you're satisfied with 4" at 500 yards, then keep on doing what you're doing.

I for one am not going to put down anyone's methods or tell them what they need to do. I'll offer my advice, suggestions, and experience when asked and I'll back it up with why I believe in it. That's it though. Take it or leave it. Believe it yourself, or not. I'm not trying to get elected as some sort of reloading official or expert in this forum. I have nothing to prove of myself or need to try to convince anyone otherwise if they don't believe me. I despise internet arguments. The end.

 

[bigngreen]

Bench rest guys load individually so that their rounds are not subjected to bullet seating depth variances caused by rounds bouncing around in the magazine of hunting rifles. You just had to make a snide remark to that newbie to show how smart you aren't. By comparing his LRH question to the benchrest environment, it merely shows you do not have the depth of knowledge you thought you had.

Most of the long range hunters I know don't bang precision loaded ammo in a mag box, I haven't shot an animal in many years with a round from a mag box, LRH and benchrest cross paths in the loading department!!!

 

[Korhil78]

Yup...all my longrange rigs are loaded as single shots even if it has a magazine. It's really not bad at all. I can load my bullets out longer than the factory mags allow when using a custom rifle with a R700 or other factory made action as well.

 

[basinman]

what do you think of the lee factory crimp dies. Have you tested them with what results. What variables in the reloading process you find have the greatest impact on ES and SD.

I only use them on loads for my lever action, AR 15 and M 14. The Lee crimp die works like a factory crimp in that it applies pressure from the side. I have used a taper crimp die as well for my 45 ACP. The thing to watch is that you do not apply too much crimp so as to distort the bullet or bullet jacket. I still get good ES and SD with the crimped loads.