FINALLY Got to Shoot My 338 Ultra Mag.

[bigbuck]

Thanks guys for all the nice replys.
Freebird63 Dual dovetail rings are single rings that twist in and not actually double rings. I used Signature Z rings and you could put as many as you have room for on the rail.
I thought if 2 were good 4 would be better. I did some mule deer hunting here in AZ this past fall and after hiking in to different places, I found that I had to climb up some treacherous rocky areas, or backtrack a mile or so to get around them. So I figured if I were to ever fall with the rifle strapped on or carrying it, just MAYBE the scope would still be sighted in. I think the rings would be the weak link, if I didn't break the scope.
Long Time Long Ranger, I loaded 20 rds. with 94grs. of RL 25 to go test on thursday.
I cleaned it every shot for the first 10 shots and then shot it five times before cleaning it again. Now I have run 20 patches during the course of the day with bore tech eliminator and the patches still come out blueish green.
How long does it take to come clean or am I over doing it?
Bigbuck, how is your Broughton barrel to clean and what do you use?
Thanks
Tarey

GNERGY I use Montana Extreme for cleaning it puts off a strong smell and if your not in a well ventilated areah then you might catch a buzz, but it works better then anything I've used thus far . Tim North said Slip 2000 Bore oil is really good . What I did was call tim and he faxed me the break in instructions I have them tacked up on the wall of my loading room . I can fax a copy to you but it will have to be tomorrow.
note: The blue that you are seeing is normal mine did it during break in . tim also told me that my MV would increase at 90 to 100 rounds . So you should see it settle in and speed up just a bit upwards of 100 Rounds on the Chrono . I broke my rifle in just like Tim's instructions said to . I treated my new and first cutom barrel like it was Gold

BigBuck

 

[bigbuck]

FIRST RANGE REPORT
The first pic is the 15 shots I used to sight in at 100 yds. and find a load 2grs. less than max. I cleaned it between every shot for the first 10 and then after the next 5 rounds. LTLR said between 93 and 94 grains of RL 25 was accurate for him.
So I loaded up 20 rounds with 94grs of RL 25 and Nosler 250gr. Accubonds
3.800 OAL.

The next 2 pics were the 250 NAB's that I shot at 200 yds they were all over the place. It was about 90 degrees out with some breeze and some mirage. I cleaned after every five shot string. They chroned at 3125 to 3160fps at 12 ft. from the muzzle.

Any idea why they are all over the place, I let the barrel cool in between shots, at least 15 minutes.
I thought maybe something was coming loose or the scope was taking a $****. So I cleaned the barrel and tried some 180 gr. Ballistic tips I loaded a while back that shot 3/4 inch at 100 yds. out of the factory barrel. I shot them over the chrono and they ran between 3558 to 3581 fps. laoded with 91gr. AA4350. So I know nothing is loose.

So I know it will shoot. Should I try seating the bullets a litle farther from the lands, I am about .010 now.
Thanks

GNERGY , I shot 10 or 15 rounds just like you did when my barrel was new and it looked just like that .
I have shot Magnums every since I was 15 years old . All of them had skinny factory barrels except for my sendero 300Rum . I always had better groups when I would let the barrel cool for 15 min or longer . But when i got the Broughton I called tim and asked him once it had been broken in whats the best way for the custom barrel should I let it cool ? And he said "always shot 2 fowlers just before you shoot groups" he said "this shoots out the oil thats left over from last cleaning/ oiling and it brings the barrel steel up to tempature" . He said then immediately get set up and shoot reload get set and shoot again . I have shoot 5 shot groups with my 300 RUM in under 8 minutes . It took me some time to have confidence in this methode because I've always had to waite and waite before I could shoot again . give it a try and you will smile when you can pop off 5 rounds like it was a 22-250 and have one wallered hole thats what I love about a custom barrel !
Note : I called up Shawn back when I was going to get a barrel and he said he never has to waite on the custom barrels to cool down he says they still hold tight groups. I wouldn't shoot 30 rounds non stop but 5, 10 shot strings your good to go . I clean my barrel now after ever 20 to 30 shots.

BigBuck

 

[liltank]

Don't give up quite yet on the 250's. I would play with length a little. Take it to the lands, .005" off the lands. You already know .010" doesn't work, so try .015, and .020" off. This may give you the results you are looking for. One thing that I did that drove me up a wall is trying to pick different powders and bullets to work. I decided to just pick a known powder that worked in the caliber, and the bullet I wanted to use. Viola... found a recipe that works. 61.5grns H4350 and a 208 A-max on the lands. The H4350 is a known powder to work well in the WSM's and the 208 is the bullet I wanted to use. Not quite the speed I was looking for, but it is accurate as far as I am concerned. Rolled a groundhog at 975yrds with it. Hain't to shabby!!

Tank

 

[GNERGY]

Bigbuck, I got some Montana Extreme cleaner and am going to try that against the bore tech eliminator.
Liltank, I loaded some .005 .015 .020 off the lands like you suggested and am going to try and shoot them on sat.
Has anybody ever Moly sprayed their bullets and seen if it helps accuracy.
The 180 gr. ballistic tips I shot at 200 yds are moly sprayed.
Tarey

 

[liltank]

Bigbuck, I got some Montana Extreme cleaner and am going to try that against the bore tech eliminator.
Liltank, I loaded some .005 .015 .020 off the lands like you suggested and am going to try and shoot them on sat.
Has anybody ever Moly sprayed their bullets and seen if it helps accuracy.
The 180 gr. ballistic tips I shot at 200 yds are moly sprayed.
Tarey

Make sure you have a load touching the lands also.
Tank

 

[GNERGY]

I loaded some .005 .015 .020 off the lands and it still didn't improve much.
I am going to try some touching the lands. I read somewhere that groups that are more verticle than horizontal need more powder. Should I try going up and down a half a grain with the powder or that won't make much difference. So will a different powder be my next move?
What would you guys do?
This is saturdays results at 200 yds.
Tarey

 

[liltank]

When it comes to selecting a bullet it pays to play with load development. Now you see that it doesn't group by moving the bullet in and out, pick a length.... like .010" off the lands and do a ladder test. Put loads together in .5grn increments and starting low and working up to max. This should show you accuracy nodes as you shoot. One load that works for one guy generally never works for another. With the RUM, I would start at 90.0grns of H1000 and work up to your max. You may not get max velocity, but you may find your bullet settles down and becomes accurate. If that doesn't prove to work then it's time to move on. I have found that ladder testing finds accuracy. You may even want to drop as low as 88.0grns. I would still try some touching the lands also. You could do this in your ladder test.

Some vertical stringing can be caused by large jumps in velocity. You generally don't see until you really stretch it out, but that is the case most often. If you have access to a chronograph, it would pay to use it and see what kind of velocity spreads you are getting. You may need to change powder and try Retumbo, or something in that lines. H4831sc and IMR 7828ssc or regular 7828 may be something to try as well. Just some idea's.

Of the three targets, .005 looks the best. You may see a tighter group when you touch the lands. It looks like the farther from the lands you move the bigger the group. Touching the lands may be the ticket.

Tank

 

[bigbuck]

I loaded some .005 .015 .020 off the lands and it still didn't improve much.
I am going to try some touching the lands. I read somewhere that groups that are more verticle than horizontal need more powder. Should I try going up and down a half a grain with the powder or that won't make much difference. So will a different powder be my next move?
What would you guys do?
This is saturdays results at 200 yds.
Tarey

GNERGY, I forgot to mention this before but Tim had told me to not worry with load development his actual words were "don't shoot groups" until I had my barrel broken in . So what I did was shoot several rounds that I already had loaded. And when it stopped fowling out so quickly then I started group shooting once I had a decent group around 5/8" at 100 then I proceeded out to 200 yards tweaking and got a nice 3 shot group that you could cover with a dime . It took me around 90 shots down the tube but thats with a .30 cal your .338 may do it in less shots . Some will dissagree but I feel like your loading for a barrel that is changing a little with each shot because it's breaking in a little each time therfore resulting in a different pattern. Atleast your haveing fun and getting plenty of trigger time.

Just my opinion .

BigBuck

 

[GNERGY]

Liltank, the first loads I shot started at 85.5 grs of RL 25
85.5=2833 fps.
86 = 2826 fps.
86.5=2826 fps.
87 =2892 fps.
87.5=2846 fps.
88 =2871 fps.
88.5=2873 fps.
89 =2875 fps.
89.5=2976 fps.
90 =3009 fps.
91 =2999 fps.
92 =3020 fps.
93 =3040 fps.
94 =3100 fps.
94.5=3153 fps.
95 =3169 fps.
At 95 the bolt got a little harder to open then all the rest of the loads. It didn't have a shiny ejector mark yet so that is why I just dropped down 1 grain and loaded then up ( as per how Kirby Allen does ) to find his most accurate load.
Wonder why the 180 gr ballistic tips I shot grouped so good, they are only 3.670 OAL compared to 3.800 OAL for the 250 accubonds. They are making a BIG jump to the lands.
The 250's with 94 grains chronoed between 3120 fps --3160 fps.
Tarey

 

[liltank]

85.5=2833 fps.
86 = 2826 fps.
86.5=2826 fps.
87 =2892 fps.
87.5=2846 fps.
88 =2871 fps.
88.5=2873 fps.
89 =2875 fps.
89.5=2976 fps.

Did you notice any better grouping in this range?

Tank

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

All rifles are different. Some rifles do not like bullets seated on or near the lands. My best big 338 shooters are freebore rifles that do not seat near the lands. Shoot what the rifle likes. I am a hunter so I want my loads to feed through the magazine. So I start at maximum length that will feed through the magazine which is rarely on the lands. Then I work with loads to get the accuracy I want at the seating depth I want. Seating against the rifling has nothing to do with my load developement. Working with a hunting rifle is different than a target rifle. I am not trying to shave tenths off my group to win a match. I am taking all the important factors that are important to me involving killing game and am looking for kill shots in the animals chest. A tenth here or there by seating on the lands is just not important to me becuase I am looking at the big picture of killing stuff. Shoot your gun where it wants to be shot at and don't try to force it to shoot where you want it.

 

[GNERGY]

Liltank, the first target picture in this thread is the one I used for the first shots at 100 yds ( those that I listed the velocities ) but I cleaned the barrel after each of the first 10 shots and then after every five.

LTLR, I had Jim See throat it for the 250 NAB seated at 3.810 OAL my magazine is longer than that ( I made my own extended magazine by cutting and putting 2 factory mags together ) It is 3.9 something, I don't remember exactly.

Tarey

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Thanks, I hope you get it worked out. You have an excellent and typically extremely accurate rifle. The good sign is it has shown that it will shoot with the 180. Maybe try the 225 AB. It may just like something else. If I think of anything I will try and help you. The 250 should shoot well against the lands. Since you have it throated that way I would try another bullet against the lands like the 225 or another 250. I use freebore in all my big guns so I am not familiar with the short throat in the big rifles.

 

[liltank]

I would say let the barrel get dirty and do some testing then. Foul with one or two shots then test your loads. Sounds like break in may still need to be done according to bigbuck.

Tank