FFP vs SFP Mechanical Durability

[redchinviking]

This might have been answered already but after a little digging I found nothing. Spoke with an engineer at one of the market leading scope manufacturers recently about whether a SFP was more durable mechanically than a FFP. Which one is statistically more likely to fail from impacts. Return to zero, accurate tracking, or catastrophic fail. He beat around the bush for awhile then basically said yes, SFP theoretically are more durable than FFP. My personal experience…doesn't really matter. I want to know the truth from people who REALLY know. Looking for real tangible technical answers here not just from the couple scopes you've owned answers. When talking middle to higher end scopes that are higher quality is there a difference in durability for FFP vs SFP say in the same line so we're talking apples to apples? For instance NightForce ATACR ffp vs sfp, Leupold Mark V ffp vs sfp
Any riflescope engineers out there listening?

 

[hankle]

Following... I'm fairly technically minded and never thought about it. That should definitely be a buying consideration in the $2K + price range for the average guy. I'm already a fan boy of FFP. This will be interesting. I hope the optic wizards show up...

 

[Rick Richard]

Now this is a new one (Question).

 

[lancetkenyon]

Just look at the majority of failures. There are two companies that come to mind immediately.
Both companies make both FFP and SFP scopes.
Both companies sell a ton of scopes.
Both companies are well-known for their warranties and customer service.
Yet both have reputations for failures, and not just on their cheaper lines.
And their failures are on both the SFP and FFP models, including their flagship lines.

I think it has far more to do with overall build quality than SFP or FFP. And definitely not how good of a warranty there is.

 

[Quintus]

Just look at the majority of failures. There are two companies that come to mind immediately.
Both companies make both FFP and SFP scopes.
Both companies sell a ton of scopes.
Both companies are well-known for their warranties and customer service.
Yet both have reputations for failures, and not just on their cheaper lines.
And their failures are on both the SFP and FFP models, including their flagship lines.

I think it has far more to do with overall build quality than SFP or FFP. And definitely not how good of a warranty there is.

I think that the who makes good scopes question has been hashed plenty. I think the question is which is more durable, having the reticle in the first or second focal plane. Make the comparison with all test scopes from your single most trusted builder.

 

[Reelamin]

Following

 

[ZSteinle]

I'm no scope engineer but I wouldn't think it would matter. Just a difference on what piece of glass has the reticle etched on. I remember when FFP scoped were 20% more money than an identical sfp scope. Made no sense other than people would pay extra to have FFP

 

[redchinviking]

Just look at the majority of failures. There are two companies that come to mind immediately.
Both companies make both FFP and SFP scopes.

I'd be curious to know what the majority of failures are. Statistically. Someone has that information and is meaningly not sharing it. I would give up being able to shoot out of my reticle on any power if I knew my scope was more durable and less prone to lose zero on impacts.

 

[Paladin300]

This is an interesting question? I am a fan of FFP. I don't really see where there would be a difference in quality or durability from one to the other. They are built the same. The only difference being where the reticle is located and with reticles being etched in the lens now I can't see where it would matter. I don't know why? But for some reason in my mind I always assumed, even though they cost more, that FFP was the simpler system to build. A more natural approach. I don't, from a technical stand point think there is a difference in reliability. I think it has more to do with overall build quality. If we are talking TT, ZCO, S&B, March, NF, Kahles, IOR, Leupold MK5, VX5/6? I don't think you will find or see a difference. However, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time nor the last.

 

[redchinviking]

sorry of course they aren't meaningly sharing their failure statistics…I just wish they would!

 

[redchinviking]

Are they built the same? Are you sure? The engineer I spoke with alluded to the fact that there is a difference in how they are manufactured. Maybe that's not true for other manufacturers. He pointed out a few differences and quite honestly they were over my head. I could try to repeat them but I'll spare you. That's why I want to know more in writing from people who ACTUALLY know specifically what would make one more durable than the other. Or if your right there is, for the most part, no difference. And yes build quality is obviously more important from one manufacturer to the next or even from a lower to upper end line, but within that same model..again let's say NightForce ATACR 5-25 f1, f2? Not Leupold vs Tangent Theta silly. Any model in its own line ffp vs sfp.
Is the dark lord of optics on here?

 

[knifecat]

Interesting. I am curious now. ??? Inquiring minds want to know. I go back and forth between which I prefer. This could really sway me one way or the other if someone can give us some facts???

 

[jraulsten]

As long as you are comparing apples to apples there should not be any difference. As far as I know, the only difference is in reticle placement within the scope. If the difference goes beyond that, say for instance the FFP scope has more parts, then I would say statistically there is a higher chance of failure.

I've had all kinds of mid to high end scopes and I can tell you they all fail. Ironically I've never had a failure with a higher end "V" scopes (which may just be luck) but have had 3 major failures with some much higher end scopes. Of course they saw much more use than the others. I'm not sure which is more frustrating, having to send a scope in more frequently or waiting to get one back from Austria in 3 months

 

[MarkAnthony]

I think it would be interesting to see the percentages of failure between FFP and SFP scopes in addition to the same between Variable power and Fixed power scopes. I realize that a lot of factors would come into play. Wonder if one of the shooting training facilities that offers long range rifle classes has any kind of records they might have compiled?