What I'm saying doesn't need to make sense to you bud. I dont understand where I suggest anything you've stated. I'm not trying to persuade your opinions or thoughts or reactions in any way. I'm not trying to do math or anything like you have. My experiences are proven. You can believe whatever you want based on your experiences. Wolves dont influence my hunting that much. Never have. It's not a debate you need to prove I'm wrong about. Once we get into proving an individual's experiences wrong we are starting to introducing more opinions. I have my opinions and I have my experiences. Both are explained in my posts and both are proven. They may not be in line with your experiences or opinions and that's fine. But I will not try and disprove your experiences.
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Feds and wolves
- Thread starter WYOHTF
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jakelly
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See, though, that's the rub, your experiences aren't proven. This is the internet, you can say whatever you want. What I'm saying is, "I don't believe you." If having 60+ breeding wolves living in your valley doesn't change your hunting, then you are either hunting something wolves don't eat, or you aren't hunting.
I am not trying to change your opinion about, "your experiences." You aren't even my intended audience. I'm trying to demonstrate to the other viewers, through our discussion, the mathematical unlikelihood of "your experience." As I've mentioned earlier, "I don't believe it" and I don't believe that other hunters should just accept it as a data point in this discussion because a nice guy on the internet said so. You could be operating a propaganda campaign for all I know. The reason why isn't really my concern, the weight given to your testimony is.
It's all good pal. Mathematical likelihood is irrelevant. I bet if I told you that myself and other people have drawn tags that the mathematical likelihood make it almost impossible, you'd argue that as well? I feel you're reaching fairly heavily to try and disprove something you simply cannot. The point is you're not wrong. And I'm not wrong, but you're not completely right. You're mathematical likelihood doesn't trump what happens in other peoples lives. If you'd like to think that what I've experienced isn't correct that's you're perrogive. Stay home and avoid the wolves
. Propganda to keep hunters out of the woods?....Now that's not a far reach 
but then again my stories would align more with yours.jakelly
Well-Known Member
Deflecting the conversation to anecdotal "experiences" is a nothing burger in this discussion. This isn't an issue that can be obscured using relativism. The issue of these wolves is driven by facts.
These are relevant facts:
I'll tell you what, though, since we're pals and all. You invite me to come with you and the rest of your friends to this utopian valley full of both wolves and big game, and I'll be there with bells on, just as an observer so I don't steal your thunder. I'll gladly take the time off of work just to tag along and have my mind blown.
These are relevant facts:
- Wolves need 4-10 pounds of meat per day to survive.
- That meat must come from animals they kill in their area of operation.
- Their prey needs not come every day, but must come within a few weeks or the animals will starve.
- The interval between feedings predicts the reproductive rate.
- The nutritional value of those prey animals can be calculated.
- Those totals can be extrapolated across any period of time.
I'll tell you what, though, since we're pals and all. You invite me to come with you and the rest of your friends to this utopian valley full of both wolves and big game, and I'll be there with bells on, just as an observer so I don't steal your thunder. I'll gladly take the time off of work just to tag along and have my mind blown.
Man i think you're arguing with yourself. Haha. You don't have to believe me. I promise it will be ok. Although I appreciate all the research and mathematical equations you have done it its relatively moot in my experiences. It clearly makes you feel right when trying to disprove the world with irrelevant info to the statements I've made. I'll continue to hunt in the places I have and wolves will not majorly hinder our plans or success. No worries here mate. I think you should go back a read my posts. You're statements about utopian valleys full of elk and wolves is again another reach. If you can keep up you're more than welcome to tag along.
We're still all friends here. I've been watching a while, I'll bite.
Here's my take.
Every species has its place.
When the human species were less prolific, "woofs" were more essential. Now that we humans have populated the wilderness, there is far less demand for the apex K9. Hence the elimination. Soooo. Decisions must be made. Less for us or less of them?
Here's my take.
Every species has its place.
When the human species were less prolific, "woofs" were more essential. Now that we humans have populated the wilderness, there is far less demand for the apex K9. Hence the elimination. Soooo. Decisions must be made. Less for us or less of them?
jakelly
Well-Known Member
Send the invite. My PMs are empty.
I've had similar experience. Where I hunt we've had wolves for 20+ years and increasing numbers ovor the last 5-10 years especially. But I've filled elk tags within 500 yards of where a wolf was howling 3 days earlier. The elk behavior has changed a little, especially when the wolves are around, but not significantly. I would argue that exponentially higher hunter pressure and automobile collisions has had a larger affect on the herds around here. And I don't love wolves. I respect their prowess, but I'll shoot one in a heartbeat. Almost got one last year, but he was too smart to stop moving.
jakelly
Well-Known Member
PM sent.
Please provide age, weight. Restrictions apply....
I would also agree with you on the hunting pressure thing. The animals are highly pressured in a lot of areas by an over abundance of hunters. In many cases we find our success lies not in avoiding predators but other hunters. And yes them things are pretty wiley. Not often do you see them standing around long enough to get a decent shot.
I thought I would share a couple of pics from Yellowstone a couple of years ago. We saw just about every game animal on this trip except for the wolf. I understand there is a significant number of wolves in the area. I was told the elk was a wolf kill and the Griz chased the wolves away. We saw several groups of elk while hiking around.
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