Extreme spread has me pulling my hair out.

OK fellas, Recieved HARPERC's chrony on Friday as expected. Went out and did the test today, not sure what it all means but yal can make up your own minds.
My chrony HARPERC's
2936 2935
2923 2930
2943 2963
2930 2925
2930 2925

I suspect that the last shot was not registered by HARPERC's chrony as mine showed duplicate and HARPERC's just read 2925 fps.
HARPERC's was set directly behind mine by and inch.
Mine was placed where a measured 15' was in the middle of my chrony.
HARPERC's is the same brand as mine but, a diffrent series either slightly older or newer (I suspect older). Anyway here they are. Brad
 
It is very interesting how much more consistent your readings were vs your initial post. I am assuming the same loads?

ES on your chrony was 20fps, with no major outliers. Not sure what that means, but your good groups at range would lead me to believe your first go-around gave you some wonky data.
 
All the same loads. I've done this 4 seperate times since my first posting and here are the results.

First, 2996, 2911, 2936, 2943, 2930, 2969

Then,2947, 2930

Then, 2917, 2923, 2911, 2936

Then today, 2936, 2923, 2943, 2930, 2930

and of course HARPERCS which were fired at the same time of the last readings were 2935, 2930, 2963, 2925, and 2925.
 
Ranger Brad

Your last string is ES= 38fps. That is Happy Land! Four of the five are ES= 10fps. Those are great numbers and I personally would be slamming it everybody's face at the Gun Club! Those five shots should prove that load as a tack driver at distance. Congrats. Don't mess with it.
 
Pretty consistent. Do you have an ES goal in mind. I'd be curious if you tried a slightly different bushing. You didn't say, are you annealing your case necks? If you lose an occasional high or low things tighten a bit.
 
The ES I have been looking for is 10 fps or less. I don't anneal case's. I do it exactly like the defensive edge " Reloading for Long Range hunting " video. What I got from all of this is don't pay alot of attention to the chrony. As stated earlier even though HARPERC's chrony was behind mine it measured 2 of the shots faster than mine and one by 20 fps. I'm discovering that I should load the rounds as precise as I can, use the chrony to get a good round number as a starting point then shoot the data and if I'm getting good groups, just let it be what it is real world and apply corrections accordingly. I now believe that chrony's are not giving you the gospel. A good round starting point is the best you can hope for. That's my take away. Brad
 
The ES I have been looking for is 10 fps or less. I don't anneal case's. I do it exactly like the defensive edge " Reloading for Long Range hunting " video. What I got from all of this is don't pay alot of attention to the chrony. As stated earlier even though HARPERC's chrony was behind mine it measured 2 of the shots faster than mine and one by 20 fps. I'm discovering that I should load the rounds as precise as I can, use the chrony to get a good round number as a starting point then shoot the data and if I'm getting good groups, just let it be what it is real world and apply corrections accordingly. I now believe that chrony's are not giving you the gospel. A good round starting point is the best you can hope for. That's my take away. Brad

You've nailed it on the head - End of story - AMEN
 
Hey fellas, I have tried for over a year to control my es in my 25-06 and can't seem to get a handle on it.
I load my rounds while watching Defensive edges, reloading for long range hunting and do it step by step.
I am reloading 115gr berger VLD's in winchester brass using 54gr of H4831sc and using federal large rifle match primers.
Each bullet is weighed and measured for consistency. All brass is sized using Reddining s bushing dies and seated with the redding micrometer seating die. All brass is fire formed then then head spaced .002 less, then trimmed using the sinclair mirometer trimmer then cleaned using the stainless steal tumbler to clean well inside and out. All powder is twice measured to an exact 54gr. all OAL are measured to exactly 2.707, I am setting .020 off of lands and I still have horrible es. I even sort my brass by how often it is fired. As an example I went out last week and shot 6 rounds and the read as follows. 2996,2911,2936,2943,2930,2969 All were measured with my Competetion Electronics Prochrono. My only consistency in es is inconsistency. Please help. Thank's, Brad



I will try to make this brief (Very difficult for me) Ha Ha.

I used to have to shoot several hundred rounds before I found the "Node"(Best accuracy). So I decided to use a different approach.

It has saved me literally thousands of rounds and hours of testing.

First I start with an open mind. (I don't Start by deciding to use a specific bullet brand and weight)

I look at the loading manuals And try to find a powder, primer and bullet weight that produces good results for the game to be hunted, I want the maximum load listed to be near 100% case density and the optimum ballistics if possible.

Once I decide on which loads that look the best for the intended use I will load 5 rounds of each (I try to find 4 0r 5 different combinations.

Next I go to the range and set up the chronograph to give me a load performance for each load.(Even though the Chronograph may not give perfect velocities, Most will be consistent in there data).

As I test each load I monitor the SDs and ESs, If a load gives me a SD of over 15, (Even after 2 or 3
rounds) I discontinue testing it and move on to the next load. Note: I clean the barrel after each test load and fire a fouling shot before starting the test on the next load. (This helps keep the test Apples to apples and the barrel in the same condition for each group giving the loads equal conditions.

Most barrel will change after 4 to 10 rounds (Some better and some worse) so being consistent with
barrel condition is very important IMO to prevent the barrel condition from masking a potential performer.

I look for trends from these results (Which powder it seems to like best, which primer is more consistent ETC.

Armed with this Information I narrow the search down to one or two loads and repeat the process.

Once I find the best "Load combination" of powder, primer and bullet weight I can refine the load by changing ONLY ONE COMPONENTS A TIME to see the difference it produces (The chronograph Is still the best tool for this because it shows the difference in the test loads best.

Now I address the accuracy of my best load buy changing bullet brands and seating depths (I know I have a good load because of the consistency of the velocity, SDs ESs at this point). Barrels are individuals and normally prefer one bullet style or brand over another so I don't try to force a rifle/barrel to except one bullet.

This sounds like a long and tedious process but in most cases I have found sub 1/2 moa groups
In less than 20 to 30 shots (A far cry from the other trial and error method I used to use that sometimes took 100+ rounds to find even an except able starting point.

There is still one more thing that must be done for long range hunting as far as I am concerned and
that is to shoot the load at 100,200, 300, 400, and 600 yards to make sure you have an accurate Ballistic Coefficient for the bullet (This will give you good numbers for adjusting your trajectory's and
Show the limitations of the load and maximum distance to use and that it will perform well at extended distance.

Nothing is easy if you intend to shoot over 3 or 400 yards. It requires good bullets, consistent velocities and good performance on the game to be hunted. And most important of all is skill and knowledge of his loads and the effects the conditions have on him and his equipment.

This is just the way I work up loads and I am not happy until I get well below 1/2 MOA accuracy
and don't stop trying to improve accuracy until I realize that I have squeezed every once of performance out of a particular rifle.

Even if it shoots below 1/10th MOA, if I think I can squeeze another couple of thousandths off the group size or a couple of numbers off the SDs I will try. Just "OK" is not in my vocabulary Because I need all the help I can get from my equipment.

I hope this helps someone.

J E CUSTOM
 
Your goal of ES < 10 fps may be below the threshhold of the accuracy of the chronographs availible to us mear mortals. Most manufacturers don't guarantee less than 1%. So once you achieve the level you are at right now I suspect you are limited to actual long range groups. Your ability to decern between two loads has reached the limits of your equipment. If you run the results of your high and low shots through a balistics program you will fine the difference in velocity will diminish at longer range to a negligable amount. Thus the recommendations by the others on this thread to test at long range. I suspect you have already achieved your goal.
Well done!!!
 
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