moosehunter
Well-Known Member
Who makes the nicest to use scale in the $150.00 range?
Electronic scales
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ricka0
Well-Known Member
undisputed champ
CHARGEMASTER COMBO $259.99
MidSouthShootersSply
Don't buy junk.
This if for a combo (dispensor and scale)
CHARGEMASTER COMBO $259.99
MidSouthShootersSply
Don't buy junk.
This if for a combo (dispensor and scale)
HoytemanPA
Well-Known Member
I have a RCBS powder pro. Predecessor of the chargemaster. It works fine for bullets and brass, I just have to make sure it's turned on for a half hour before I cal, zero and use it or it drifts during that time.
I still use a beam for powder though.
I still use a beam for powder though.
Check these out for .001 grain accuracy.
http://balance.balances.com/scales/906
I havent seen them, but, the scale reads out more places than my RCBS Chargemaster (which is incredible!).
Wolfdawg
http://balance.balances.com/scales/906
I havent seen them, but, the scale reads out more places than my RCBS Chargemaster (which is incredible!).
Wolfdawg
ricka0
Well-Known Member
How accurate (consistent) do you need to be? The only reason weight is used is because you can get the most precision from a scale. If you could magically get 3 decimals measuring by volume (I've been told) - you could get a more consistent charge.
I'm not talking BR here, but ultra long range hunting - where you make compromises to get reliable ammo (it, don't seat bullet into the lands, have finite neck tension, less than 150 lbs (OK, less than 15 lbs really))
Not trying to be controversial here, but inquiring minds want to know.
I'm not talking BR here, but ultra long range hunting - where you make compromises to get reliable ammo (it, don't seat bullet into the lands, have finite neck tension, less than 150 lbs (OK, less than 15 lbs really))
Not trying to be controversial here, but inquiring minds want to know.
3sixbits
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Who makes the nicest to use scale in the $150.00 range?
[/ QUOTE ] Once upon a time I paid a vist to Mike Dillion's shop in Scottsdale for rebuilds on a couple of my old RL1000's. While lugging them to the back I noticed a pallet of beat looking eletronic scales on the floor. So I asked and was told they where returns. Buy a set of now R.C.B.S. 1010 scales. Mine are made with the OHAUS name on them, bought some thirty years ago. I read with great intrest the artical about the test ran on the Prometheus, comparing it to a Harrel and a 1010 scale. The reason I found it so interesting is because this is the set-up I've used for a number of years. If anyone can help me justfy the cost of the Prometheus (which is better!) I'll spring for the Prometheus! I just can not justify the difference for what I do. If my name was Dave Tubb then I can see it. But for what I do, ny setup works for me and I enjoy the Harrel measure everytime I use it! I enjoy the fact that the 1010 scales have never given me a problem in 30 years and they always check good against my weight standards. Prometaus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Who makes the nicest to use scale in the $150.00 range?
[/ QUOTE ] Once upon a time I paid a vist to Mike Dillion's shop in Scottsdale for rebuilds on a couple of my old RL1000's. While lugging them to the back I noticed a pallet of beat looking eletronic scales on the floor. So I asked and was told they where returns. Buy a set of now R.C.B.S. 1010 scales. Mine are made with the OHAUS name on them, bought some thirty years ago. I read with great intrest the artical about the test ran on the Prometheus, comparing it to a Harrel and a 1010 scale. The reason I found it so interesting is because this is the set-up I've used for a number of years. If anyone can help me justfy the cost of the Prometheus (which is better!) I'll spring for the Prometheus! I just can not justify the difference for what I do. If my name was Dave Tubb then I can see it. But for what I do, ny setup works for me and I enjoy the Harrel measure everytime I use it! I enjoy the fact that the 1010 scales have never given me a problem in 30 years and they always check good against my weight standards. Prometaus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
257speed
Well-Known Member
I can personally vouch for the crapiness of the Dillon electronic scale. I have one collecting dust on my bench as my 10-10 gets a good workout.
sniper2
Well-Known Member
I don't know but my Pact just died after a couple years use!!Back to the Ohaus (1010)again.
D
daveosok
Guest
.001 gr accuracy.
Not needed, ever, too many variables. Barrel heating after first shot changes ever so slightly in length and diameter and after shooting 5 rounds in a ten round comp the barrel really changes dia and length. This would negate the need for .001 gr accuracy as the barrel variable alone cancels out any three place decimal reading device.
My friend who shoots at Williamsport weighed his bullets like this and after many, many hours of weighing the resultant group sizes of bullets was so small he couldn't tell if it was the weight or just simply some other variable as the gun shot equally well with the three place weighed bullets versus the 2 place weighed bullets.
As far as powder goes the quality of each individual grain would have to be exactly the same size and then you may see some insignificant amount of change probably even un-measurable. Your grains of powder would have to fall exactly the same and lay in the case exactly the same and probably even then the burn rate would be at best so far apart that calling it close would be the same as horseshoes and handgenades, not a factor once again as you cannot control this aspect.
I thought about getting the .001 scale but with all the other variables associated with loading and shooting this one was truly a "doesn't matter you'll never see it" issue.
You would need an optical comparator to measure each and every bullet, each and every grain of powder, each and every case, each and every primer and then weigh each and every bullet each and every case, each and every primer, some optical comparators will allow you to measure in millionths .xxxxx decimal places, this is absurd as like I had said before barrel heat alone would cancel out this time and effort.
Ignition time and energy of the primer could be studied, you'll find this too doesn't matter, maybe for the most anal of benchrest shooters would this matter but it's only in your mind where it matters as the numbers are so small the effort exerted does not outweigh the gains as they are almost un-measurable.
For the benchrest crowd this may be what they do to some extent, but for us and extreme long range shooting 2 place decimal reading devices will suffice quite well for our needs. Don't let me stop you though from getting the scale it is a fine piece of equipment and a great price the Ohaus I was looking at, the AR1530 is $770.00 and measures 3 places, the repeatability is .001, the VIC-123 is .001 and repeats +/- 2d which means it will read into the 3 decimal places but only repeat in the 2 decimal places so the 3 in this case is just gee whiz info.
These scales are also very sensitive to magnetism, wind, and leveling for them to perform as suggested by their specifications.
I have the RCBS where the scale talks to the powder dispenser, it reads in 2 decimal places so I don't know how close it is to the next second decimal reading which may contribute to accuracy but you would have to pick the high side or the low side of the reading and stick with that for averages if you had a three place reading device.
Then again I have seen factory Rem 700's with only one bolt lug contacting shoot extremely small groups with federal factory ammo suggesting that maybe all of what we do is in vain, but then again even a blind squirrel finds a acorn once and a while so what does this matter, I'm not sure, but if the gun shoots great with two place reading equipment and I cant tell the difference between groups from three place reading equipment then it doesn't really matter does it?
Dave
Not needed, ever, too many variables. Barrel heating after first shot changes ever so slightly in length and diameter and after shooting 5 rounds in a ten round comp the barrel really changes dia and length. This would negate the need for .001 gr accuracy as the barrel variable alone cancels out any three place decimal reading device.
My friend who shoots at Williamsport weighed his bullets like this and after many, many hours of weighing the resultant group sizes of bullets was so small he couldn't tell if it was the weight or just simply some other variable as the gun shot equally well with the three place weighed bullets versus the 2 place weighed bullets.
As far as powder goes the quality of each individual grain would have to be exactly the same size and then you may see some insignificant amount of change probably even un-measurable. Your grains of powder would have to fall exactly the same and lay in the case exactly the same and probably even then the burn rate would be at best so far apart that calling it close would be the same as horseshoes and handgenades, not a factor once again as you cannot control this aspect.
I thought about getting the .001 scale but with all the other variables associated with loading and shooting this one was truly a "doesn't matter you'll never see it" issue.
You would need an optical comparator to measure each and every bullet, each and every grain of powder, each and every case, each and every primer and then weigh each and every bullet each and every case, each and every primer, some optical comparators will allow you to measure in millionths .xxxxx decimal places, this is absurd as like I had said before barrel heat alone would cancel out this time and effort.
Ignition time and energy of the primer could be studied, you'll find this too doesn't matter, maybe for the most anal of benchrest shooters would this matter but it's only in your mind where it matters as the numbers are so small the effort exerted does not outweigh the gains as they are almost un-measurable.
For the benchrest crowd this may be what they do to some extent, but for us and extreme long range shooting 2 place decimal reading devices will suffice quite well for our needs. Don't let me stop you though from getting the scale it is a fine piece of equipment and a great price the Ohaus I was looking at, the AR1530 is $770.00 and measures 3 places, the repeatability is .001, the VIC-123 is .001 and repeats +/- 2d which means it will read into the 3 decimal places but only repeat in the 2 decimal places so the 3 in this case is just gee whiz info.
These scales are also very sensitive to magnetism, wind, and leveling for them to perform as suggested by their specifications.
I have the RCBS where the scale talks to the powder dispenser, it reads in 2 decimal places so I don't know how close it is to the next second decimal reading which may contribute to accuracy but you would have to pick the high side or the low side of the reading and stick with that for averages if you had a three place reading device.
Then again I have seen factory Rem 700's with only one bolt lug contacting shoot extremely small groups with federal factory ammo suggesting that maybe all of what we do is in vain, but then again even a blind squirrel finds a acorn once and a while so what does this matter, I'm not sure, but if the gun shoots great with two place reading equipment and I cant tell the difference between groups from three place reading equipment then it doesn't really matter does it?
Dave
Just for the sake of accuracy, which after all is what we're talking about here, better read that ad again, that's .001 GRAM accuracy, which equates to about .0154 grain, which is PLENTY accurate I must admit. It is not necessary to weigh to that extreme, and would be needlessly time consuming. .1 grain is plenty accurate enough for even the most accurate rifle or pistol. Benchresters go mostly by volume anyway, and they get along fairly well.
The Dillon scales came in several different models over the years. I did a review of electronic scales a while back and tested all the versions of the Dillon. The older 1200 grain capacity DTerminator is one of the best electronic scales made, out of all tested, which included RCBS, PACT, Lyman etc. The newer Dillons are trash, and in my opinion are dangerous. I wrote them an email explaining my findings and they replied that their scales are for setting up a powder measure only, where a charge is thrown into the pan and the pan is placed on the scale, with no more powder being added. Their scales cannot discern the difference between a zero shift and powder being trickled into the pan.
I use the older Dillon DTerminator until someone comes out with something better, but I doubt they can beat it by much.
The Dillon scales came in several different models over the years. I did a review of electronic scales a while back and tested all the versions of the Dillon. The older 1200 grain capacity DTerminator is one of the best electronic scales made, out of all tested, which included RCBS, PACT, Lyman etc. The newer Dillons are trash, and in my opinion are dangerous. I wrote them an email explaining my findings and they replied that their scales are for setting up a powder measure only, where a charge is thrown into the pan and the pan is placed on the scale, with no more powder being added. Their scales cannot discern the difference between a zero shift and powder being trickled into the pan.
I use the older Dillon DTerminator until someone comes out with something better, but I doubt they can beat it by much.
ricka0
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
.001 gr accuracy.
Not needed, ever, too many variables. Barrel heating after first shot changes ever so slightly in length and diameter and after shooting 5 rounds in a ten round comp the barrel really changes dia and length. This would negate the need for .001 gr accuracy as the barrel variable alone cancels out any three place decimal reading device.
.... Your grains of powder would have to fall exactly the same and lay in the case exactly the same and probably even then the burn rate would be at best so far apart that calling it close would be the same as horseshoes and handgenades, not a factor once again as you cannot control this aspect.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
A++ post - thx dave
.001 gr accuracy.
Not needed, ever, too many variables. Barrel heating after first shot changes ever so slightly in length and diameter and after shooting 5 rounds in a ten round comp the barrel really changes dia and length. This would negate the need for .001 gr accuracy as the barrel variable alone cancels out any three place decimal reading device.
.... Your grains of powder would have to fall exactly the same and lay in the case exactly the same and probably even then the burn rate would be at best so far apart that calling it close would be the same as horseshoes and handgenades, not a factor once again as you cannot control this aspect.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
A++ post - thx dave
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I agree about the Dillon DTerminator. But they are very rare.
If mine ever dies, I'll go to prometheous
If mine ever dies, I'll go to prometheous
