I have to seriously question the shot placement from those reporting "poor performance". Seriously how is it even possible that of the dozens of animals I have taken with Bergers I have seen not one problem yet others claim the opposite?
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Eld x vs berger
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How is it possible that within the first 6 game animals I killed and recovered with the VLDs that I'd experienced an equal number of failures to expand as experienced over the prior 45 yrs of hunting?
Are we back to it couldn't be a problem with the bullet design? And since that can't be, it must be the shooter/user's fault? Because that sounds a lot like blaming the messengers.
Are we back to it couldn't be a problem with the bullet design? And since that can't be, it must be the shooter/user's fault? Because that sounds a lot like blaming the messengers.
5RWill
Well-Known Member
Idk that video certainly seemed pretty evident. Other than one shot from the 6.5CM the rest were pretty terrible. That's a recent design too, not an older one, which is concerning truthfully.
I took a mature buck this year at 300ish with the 130gr hybrid @ 2815fps, DRT but spined. We've taken three deer with the 105gr HVLD @ 2700fps two ran extremely far despite solid shots and exit wounds, which we had a hard time tracking because they ran into a flooded field that runs in with a bayou. One of those three was a 130 class 8 point my mom took, DRT, but again spined.
The 140gr Elite Hunters at 2934fps performed fine on a behind the shoulder shot, DRT, through and through. On the straight shoulder shot that i had on a small buck there was no exit and little to no blood. Only found him because i knew he was hit and walked up on him in CRP.
I know people that swear by them and have seen videos from people i trust with great results. One of those being Sam Millard of Panhandle precision. Around here i'm not the only one, lots in MS out of our MPRC/MLRS group are so so about the bergers. I've come to think they're just not meant for traditional shots. That they were designed for high shoulder.
Which part of the video? The part where he is griping because the bullet fragmented? Every recovered Berger I have had my hands on fragmented and none of those animals even ran.
5RWill
Well-Known Member
Not fragmentation he had one that didn't expand at all. The jacket split down and that was it. Then one out of the 6.5CM that while it fragmented did so in similar fashion. Even beyond that the results were extremely inconsistent.
I have never seen that on an animal. I have had several pass throughs where it is possible that may have happened but those animals did not make it far.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
INCONSISTENT is the operative word here. This was in a very predictable and consistent target too. If you shot 10 eld's into the same gel, they would all look pretty much the same. I know Berger's are often very effective. I think sometimes they kill by fragmenting and sometimes by tumbling. A 1 1/2 inch long bullet can cause a lot of damage when tumbling! That said, I don't see how something that inconsistent can be predictable in performance every time? Makes for great discussion though!
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Can't argue with using what works for you! That's what I do
I can argue that my Berger VLD didn't expand or tumble, and the results were predictable - as if I'd shot the animal with a field-tipped arrow. The Dall's ram even looked surprised. As if to express, is that all you've got? That's your best?
A field tipped arrow would have been equally non-lethal.
It's a bullet. Not your mother.
A field tipped arrow would have been equally non-lethal.
It's a bullet. Not your mother.
Canhunter35
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In my 257 I went back to nosler ballistic tips, dropping to a lower bc for reliable expansion. Had a vld pencil through a deers heart, he only went 30 feet and died, but if that had been a lung shot could've been a tracking job.
Been hammering coyotes with 143eldx, so far the terminal performance is extremely consistent. 2" exit wounds on the dogs. Very happy with them.
IMO I would take eldm hunting before vlds
Too bad Sierra didn't put tips on their Matchking...that 200gr 30cal would be wicked out of my 300wby!
Been hammering coyotes with 143eldx, so far the terminal performance is extremely consistent. 2" exit wounds on the dogs. Very happy with them.
IMO I would take eldm hunting before vlds
Too bad Sierra didn't put tips on their Matchking...that 200gr 30cal would be wicked out of my 300wby!
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
I've had/seen a couple pencil through as well.
1Moose
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Watching this thread as I'm loading for 260 Rem and want to get the 143 ELd-x to work. Any advice on loads that might use H1000 (nothing too encouraging yet so far with this powder), H4831 (untried as of yet), or H4350 (soon to arrive)? Have a bunch of the 140 Berger VLDs loaded for weekend testing but not fully confident with terminal performance and like what I hear about ELD-x.
