Ryan Venema
Member
So would y'all say I am better off leaving them how I have them, shooting to find the most accurate charge, then adjust seating depth?
Dumb question about seating depth
- Thread starter Ryan Venema
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I'd find a reasonable charge that does what you need/want for accuracy and then adjust the seating depth to see if you can tweak the accuracy. As a side note, I have always been reluctant to jam bullets into the lands for accuracy, but a lot of Palma shooters do and with great results. In a hunting gun particularly, I think this is a bad idea. Palma guns typically have very strong single shot actions and if a bullet does pull, it is not while your quarry is escaping. Pretty much everything else written is good advice.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Magazine length is always an issue when you jump. Most OEM magazines will be too short to accept a jumped cartridge, why I run a Wyatt Box's in my bolt guns.
I suggest spending 35 bucks and buying a Berger loading manual and read and follow the chapter on CBTO and get the proper measuring tools to measure off the ogive.
Brian Litz knows what he's talking about. Why chance it, do it right, follow his regimen.
Gmorris
Member
I like Davidson length measurer measures off olive of bullet to brass head of case!,dang spell check ogive to olive...
Last edited:
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Olive's are for Martini's. You mean Ogive.... Hornady offers a nice set of gauge plugs for different calibers and they come with the attachment anvil as well for about 30 bucks. Of course you still need a good set of dial or digital calipers. I tend to machine my own plugs from aluminum bar stock but for the price, I cannot machine the anvil and the plugs any cheaper.
I make all my own seater stems as well but that is another animal.
Using a SAMMI seat measurement works fine for non tipped boolets but a tipped boolet will not yield a consistent measurement because the tips are soft, which is why the CBTO measurement is so important and consistent. Even a solid tipped boolet like a Berger VLD will measure inconsistently because the tips aren't all the same (if measured from the tip to the base of the case) unless you uniform all the meplats before loading them, which I do anyway with a John Whidden pointing tool but I still gauge off the ogive as a matter of consistency.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
Sam Millard of Panhandle Precision puts out some very informative how to YouTube videos on this very topic, Episode #4
He makes it easy to understand and what tools you need, even a blockhead like myself could understand it !
He makes it easy to understand and what tools you need, even a blockhead like myself could understand it !
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Reason why I refer to Brian Litz and Berger as well as ABM is because Brian is a contributor on this site and a Michigander, just like I am. Brian is considered the foremost authority on internal and external ballistics by many people in the sport, myself included.
No matter what brand of bullet you load, the Berger regimen and how to obtain the most from any rifle is explained in detail in the Berger reloading manual. I recommend the manual to everyone no matter what they load far as rifle rounds go.
I've found from experience with customers rifles, that I can get any rifle to consistently group in the MOA or sub MOA range (at distance) unless there is a physical issue with the rifle.
I've used the Berger regimen on Sierra, Berger, Lapua, Nosler and Hornady bullets. Works like a charm. Takes some time and prep but the end result is a tack driver.
While I don't recommend loading for others, I will say that everyone in our immediate hunting group shoots my handloads in a variety of rifles, from custom builds to stock Remington 700's and they all shoot and shoot well.
Nothing more confidence building that drawing down on an animal at distance and knowing that the projectile will go exactly where you want it to go. Why I not only build the loads but I do the G2 ballistics drop charts for everyone as well. Everybody gets a range card so it simply a matter of dialing in the windage and holding over for wind. Dialing the dope, I cannot do. All I can do is build the rounds to get the most from a particular stick.
Of course I'm a handgunner at heart. I prefer hunting with a magnum caliber handgun, my favorite is the Smith & Wesson 460 Magnum XVR revolver. With a rifle like velocity and a 250 grain pill, it will stop any North American game animal, right now but is distance limited to around 200 yards. Best deer stopper ever made, next to a 44 magnum. Have one of those as well.
Handguns are so much easier to reload for. No CBTO, no jump, no case prep, just prime, load powder, seat a pill, crimp and shoot. No case lube on a resize either, The dies are tungsten carbide sleeved. Bullet concentricity, jump and alignment are all done with the forcing cone in the feed end of the barrel. You load to SAMMI specs, because handgun rounds have no ogive. Basically a coffee can in a brass case.
That is my thing. People think I'm nuts but it's fun and a lot less time intensive.
No matter what brand of bullet you load, the Berger regimen and how to obtain the most from any rifle is explained in detail in the Berger reloading manual. I recommend the manual to everyone no matter what they load far as rifle rounds go.
I've found from experience with customers rifles, that I can get any rifle to consistently group in the MOA or sub MOA range (at distance) unless there is a physical issue with the rifle.
I've used the Berger regimen on Sierra, Berger, Lapua, Nosler and Hornady bullets. Works like a charm. Takes some time and prep but the end result is a tack driver.
While I don't recommend loading for others, I will say that everyone in our immediate hunting group shoots my handloads in a variety of rifles, from custom builds to stock Remington 700's and they all shoot and shoot well.
Nothing more confidence building that drawing down on an animal at distance and knowing that the projectile will go exactly where you want it to go. Why I not only build the loads but I do the G2 ballistics drop charts for everyone as well. Everybody gets a range card so it simply a matter of dialing in the windage and holding over for wind. Dialing the dope, I cannot do. All I can do is build the rounds to get the most from a particular stick.
Of course I'm a handgunner at heart. I prefer hunting with a magnum caliber handgun, my favorite is the Smith & Wesson 460 Magnum XVR revolver. With a rifle like velocity and a 250 grain pill, it will stop any North American game animal, right now but is distance limited to around 200 yards. Best deer stopper ever made, next to a 44 magnum. Have one of those as well.
Handguns are so much easier to reload for. No CBTO, no jump, no case prep, just prime, load powder, seat a pill, crimp and shoot. No case lube on a resize either, The dies are tungsten carbide sleeved. Bullet concentricity, jump and alignment are all done with the forcing cone in the feed end of the barrel. You load to SAMMI specs, because handgun rounds have no ogive. Basically a coffee can in a brass case.
That is my thing. People think I'm nuts but it's fun and a lot less time intensive.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
SidecarFlip
Thanks for the informative post, I'll check the Berger manual out
WF
Thanks for the informative post, I'll check the Berger manual out
WF
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
SidecarFlip,
Have you worked with any Hammer bullets? If so, what was your results?
Have you worked with any Hammer bullets? If so, what was your results?
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
No, I have not but no matter what the brand, the Berger load ladder regimen will work as well as the CBTO measurement. I seem to remember Hammer bullets from my muzzle loader. I was always going to load some but never did, I just use Barnes in my Accura V2.
I use a Hornady COAL gauge (formerly Stoney Point) gauge to ascertain the 'loaded to the lands' initial measurement. Berger discusses (in their manual) using a bullet loaded proud in an empty case to obtain that measurement but you need to employ a bushing die on a previously fired case and set the neck tension light so when you push the bullet to the lands, it don't go too deep and give a false reading. I prefer the Hornady COAL gauge and their modified cases because it's easier. I've done it both ways in the past and I've made my own modified cases too. There are a couple You-Tube video's on how to produce a modified case.
Hornady offers a straight gauge for bolt rifles and a curved one for auto loaders. I believe the gauge is about 30 bucks and the modified cases are less than 6 bucks each except for the large magnum cases like 338 Lapua and 50 BMG.
I can make about any bullet shoot so long as I prep properly. I also use a Hornady concentricity gauge and a Sinclair runout gauge but the Hornady is nice because you can actually adjust the runout. I like to hold my loaded bullets at 0.001 TIR.
The Sinclair gauge is handy for determining neck concentricity to see if the necks need turned.
One thing to remember is, with a long ogive pill (Like the VLD'd or the ELD's) a normal seater stem in your seater die may not apply concentric contact pressure when seating a pill. Long ogive pills tend to get seated with the very end near the meplat and thusly get seated with excessive runout (as well as marking the surface of the bullet from the pressure you exert in pushing in the pill). Why I machine my own seater stems. You can buy long ogive seater stems but I have the machinery to make them so I do.
My preference in seater dies has always been RCBS Gold Medal front load micrometer seaters. 3 reasons. One the stems are easily machinable two, the pills feed in from the top front of the seater I don't like feeding a pill from the underside of a seater, I've pinched my fingers before seating handgun pills (I use a single stage press).and three, the RCBS Gold Medal seater has a floating follower that holds the base of the bullet in alignment when it first enters the case so it enters the case mouth in perfect alignment with the mouth. The problem arises when you continue to seat the pill and the stem contacts the pill at the top because the ogive is too long to allow the seater to bear on the ogive like it's supposed to.
dougduey
Well-Known Member
I learned this seating method from Nathan Foster in his book on reloading. To get a concentric round, he suggests seating the bullets' flat base or boat tail/base junction to the junction of the neck/shoulder of the brass case. After learning this, I checked all of my pet loads that I used the Berger regimen for determining seating depth and found that the bullet was seated to the spot that Nathan Foster suggests. Sometimes this doesn't work on very long VLD type bullets if you want them to fit in your magazine. So, you'll either scrap using that bullet or seat it deep enough to fit in the mag
