DPS III vs. Chargemaster 1500

[encoreguy]

Goodgrouper, I did a bit of testing today to satisfy my curiosity.

I did a proper warmup and calibration on both the RCBS and analytical scales. Then I had the Powdermaster throw 10 charges. During the test I used Hodgdon BL-C(2) due to its fine metering characteristics and decided on a charge of 50gr. I performed a tare weight function on the RCBS digital scale before it dispensed the first charge and didnt perform any more during the duration of the test. On the analytical balance, I verified tare weight on it prior to each throw of powder because it could detect fingerprints on the weighing pan and would alter its readings somewhat if i wasnt careful or if any powder residue remained in the pan.

(No) (Indicated on RCBS Digital Scale) (Indicated by the analytical balance)
1- (50.0) (50.035)
2- (50.0) (50.019)
3- (50.0) (50.026)
4- (50.0) (50.052)
5- (50.0) (50.060)
6- (50.1) (50.095)
7- (50.0) (50.038)
8- (49.9) (49.925)
9- (50.1) (50.033)
10-(50.0) (50.024)

The group taken as a whole had a SD of 0.06gr as indicated from the RCBS scale. The SD according to the analytical balance was 0.043gr. ES of 0.170

Now, as you can see some of the loads were not indicated by the dispenser as 50.0gr loads. It either over or under dispensed. So, if I were to discard all loads it said were not 50.0gr loads the Average according to the analytical balance is 50.036gr. The SD according to the analytical balance is then 0.014gr with an ES of 0.040 Thats not as bad as I had expected.

Now, I threw a few to 55.0gr on the balance beam too. Suffice it to say that the balance beam was not as accurate. The Average according to the analytical balance was 54.995gr and the SD was 0.019gr with an ES of 0.046 at the best that I could do when everything went right. Now, the flaw with the little balance beam scale was that the calibration was so easily knocked off. I wasted one whole set of numbers when I bumped it and after 4 or 5 wild samples on the analytical balance, I realized that the scale had been altered. I then had to recalibrate it and begin another test batch. I would not have been able to detect this deviation without the analytical balance there to catch the change. Now, if I was careful, and didnt mess up the calibration, it did well as the above SD indicates. A higher quality balance beam would surely do much better in reguards to holding its calibration than this little one did.

Very enlightening tests none the less. I expected a higher spread from the RCBS digital scale, and I did not expect to find the problem with the balance beam scale. As I said above, the change in that scale wasnt detectable unless you were backing up its measurements with another scale. The chronograph results that I had based my previous assumptons on was on ammo using H-1000. Its a coarse powder and perhaps that is why the balance beam had appeared to throw a more uniform powder. I should repeat the testing with a coarse powder to see if the results hold. Or, perhaps I had a really good day with the balance beam...

I would really like to get my hands on a Chargemaster to see how it performs.

Very interesting! I would say that it does very well and is very accurate. I would be off more than that much with a beam scale just by my technique.

 

[encoreguy]

Can't help with the DPS, but can say that my charge master 1500 has been very accurate in the short 3 months I've owned it. I haven't tried any ball powders yet, but with small stick and large stick it has thrown accurate charges every time. I've checked several charges with my 1010 and it's been dead on every time.

I heard of some guys setting it light and trickling the last bit. I just set mine dead on and it's been throwing them dead on the money every time. I only use it when volume loading as I find a beam quick enough if I'm just loading a few different loads for load development.

It will throw a mid 40s weight charge of stick powder in 18-20 seconds from start to finish. The auto mode is nice, empty the pan and when the pan is back in place it throws the next charge automatically.

Nice rig, I'm glad I have one.

Reloader

I looked at them both this week and I like the way the 1500 is layed out and I will shop around for the best price on one or save up my Cabela's points.

 

[Reloader]

Best Price...

encoreguy,

My wife bought this one for me as a Christmas gift. She bought it from Natchez. I believe it was $254.99 plus shipping. You may want to give them a look.

Good Luck

Reloader

 

[johnnyk]

A scale is only as accurate as the standards (weights) used to calibrate it. If you compare two different scales, they should be calibrated beforehand using the same standards. Even then you may get two different readings due to the different natures of the scales (i.e. electronic vs mechanical), but you've eliminated the standards variable.
I think your best bet is to get one scale and stick with it. I am a scale technician by trade. Guess what I have on my desk, not 18" away from my computer? A RCBS ChargeMaster! I work with probably every name brand scale there is daily. The ChargeMaster is not the best scale out there, but for reloading and shooting tiny groups and hitting targets at distant ranges it is all the mortal man needs!
I've used Sartorious, Denver Instruments and Ohaus electronic lab balances for reloading. A couple of these read out to the thousandths (.001) of a grain. My reloads then were no more accurate than they are now using the ChargeMaster "only" reading .1 gn. I used to cut powder kernels into pieces to get my scale to read as close to 67.000gns as possible. Now that's anal retentive! Just as GoodGrouper suggested, most rifles can't shoot the difference.
Something to think about. Your scale reads 50.00 gns of powder and your rifle loves this load. Groups are .200" at 100yds. If you weigh this charge out on "your" scale and then take it over to the most accurate scale in the world that reads to .000001 gns and find out your load really weighs 50.005555 gns, then what? Does it matter? Heck no! a 10 mph wind has more affect on your bullet than that. JohnnyK.

 

[Sludge]

A scale is only as accurate as the standards (weights) used to calibrate it. If you compare two different scales, they should be calibrated beforehand using the same standards. Even then you may get two different readings due to the different natures of the scales (i.e. electronic vs mechanical), but you've eliminated the standards variable.
I think your best bet is to get one scale and stick with it. I am a scale technician by trade. Guess what I have on my desk, not 18" away from my computer? A RCBS ChargeMaster! I work with probably every name brand scale there is daily. The ChargeMaster is not the best scale out there, but for reloading and shooting tiny groups and hitting targets at distant ranges it is all the mortal man needs!
I've used Sartorious, Denver Instruments and Ohaus electronic lab balances for reloading. A couple of these read out to the thousandths (.001) of a grain. My reloads then were no more accurate than they are now using the ChargeMaster "only" reading .1 gn. I used to cut powder kernels into pieces to get my scale to read as close to 67.000gns as possible. Now that's anal retentive! Just as GoodGrouper suggested, most rifles can't shoot the difference.
Something to think about. Your scale reads 50.00 gns of powder and your rifle loves this load. Groups are .200" at 100yds. If you weigh this charge out on "your" scale and then take it over to the most accurate scale in the world that reads to .000001 gns and find out your load really weighs 50.005555 gns, then what? Does it matter? Heck no! a 10 mph wind has more affect on your bullet than that. JohnnyK.

I understand that Johnny. I didnt fuss about whether the scales hit the right weight or not. I just lacked confidence in the uniformity of my scale. Sorry. So, I mentioned testing it vs the Sartorus scale that I do trust. Grouper said he was interested in the results and I found them interesting myself... so I posted them. I was pleasantly surprised how good the little digital scale did at keeping them uniform. On the loads it weighed as 50.0gr, it had an SD of 0.014gr with an ES of 0.040gr. I was expecting less uniformity than that. I really had expected a SD up near 0.05 or so. I guess I should have satisfied my curiosity and then shut my mouth. LOL However, im pretty good about eating crow when I have served a dish up for myself... so I posted the results.

Encoreguy, sry, I never meant to hijack your thread LOL

Ok, if anyone else wants to beat up on Sludge for doubting the repeatability of the little cheap loading scales... the line starts here

 

[goodgrouper]

Very interesting! Thanks for the report Sludge. ( I almost feel like I'm disrespecting you by calling you by your moniker). You had some very surprising results. I bet I know what your going to get for CHristmas next year!

Johnnyk,

Bingo. RIght on the money.

 

[encoreguy]

I understand that Johnny. I didnt fuss about whether the scales hit the right weight or not. I just lacked confidence in the uniformity of my scale. Sorry. So, I mentioned testing it vs the Sartorus scale that I do trust. Grouper said he was interested in the results and I found them interesting myself... so I posted them. I was pleasantly surprised how good the little digital scale did at keeping them uniform. On the loads it weighed as 50.0gr, it had an SD of 0.014gr with an ES of 0.040gr. I was expecting less uniformity than that. I really had expected a SD up near 0.05 or so. I guess I should have satisfied my curiosity and then shut my mouth. LOL However, im pretty good about eating crow when I have served a dish up for myself... so I posted the results.

Encoreguy, sry, I never meant to hijack your thread LOL

Ok, if anyone else wants to beat up on Sludge for doubting the repeatability of the little cheap loading scales... the line starts here

You didn't hijack my thread, like I said I find your results very interesting. My problem is if I have a tool that can make me even more anal than I already am (lol), it may not be a good thing for my sanity. Sometimes I fret so much over the preperation that I don't spend the time shooting which is the fun stuff. I think I will try a 1500. I am tired of having headaches after measuring everything on my beam scale.

 

[encoreguy]

encoreguy,

My wife bought this one for me as a Christmas gift. She bought it from Natchez. I believe it was $254.99 plus shipping. You may want to give them a look.

Good Luck

Reloader

Man that is one heck of a wife you have there! (LOL) Thanks for the heads up on the price. At one time Sportsman Warehouse had them for $249 on sale, but now they are $299.

 

[linksmechanic]

I have used the chargemaster since it came out and would not reload ever again with out it! I have shot multiple groups in the .2's with it and a couple in the .1's and now totally rely on it for all my reloading. Don't hesitate get one and you won't be sorry.

 

[Sludge]

Encorguy, if your on a budget, ebay has a used chargemaster for $250 including shipping (for now)

Item number:110226814793

 

[BHP9]

I received my Chargemaster last week and dispensing 92.0 grs of powder and weighing each throw, there were zero errors meaning that they were all 92.0grs.

Yesterday I loaded 92.5 grs for my .338LM and it take about 28 secs to dispense, enough time to press in the bullet.

Am I happy? You betcha!light bulb

FWIW I got mine from Natchez, and it cost me $309.94 delivered to Canada.

 

[johnnyk]

Hey Sludge,
My post wasn't meant to flame or blow anyone outta the water. Just trying to save some of my shooting "brothers" some time, effort and frustration by shedding light on the big picture. I got sick of double-checking and then re-checking my double-check. Life is too short. Let the machine do the work and go bust some caps! JohnnyK.

 

[Sludge]

NP, I didnt take it as a flame and the "beating up on Sludge" comment was tounge in cheek. I wasnt clear about my concern. I really dont care if a scale is off a whole tenth of a grain or not. Just so long as it has uniform results. Now, I would like to have the scale accurate, but if I were on a deserted island and was given the choice between one that was right, but had a high SD or one that perhaps was a tenth off or so but kept the SD low... I would choose the low SD one. Now, were I to be switching scales for some reason then being calibrated differently would definately be a hinderance.

I plan on experimenting a bit more since I have the analytical scale here. One, to see if the previous results hold for a coarse extruded powder and I also think I will let the powdermaster throw the charges low, and then using the powdermaster, trickle up carefully until it trips over to the right weight. Take those to the analytical scale and see if the SD tightenes up any using that method. Just curiosities on my part. I have also thought about doing some primer testing using the analytical balance to see how much corrilation there is between weight and MV given identical loads from the same rifle. Ive read other articles on it, but not all of my questions were answered.

Hell, that Sartorius scale is a bit old. It may never go to work again for anything else other than my little anal retentive experimentation LOL

It has dispelled one myth of mine reguarding the SD of loads from the beam vs those from the digital scale. It may yet educate me further.

 

[kiwiwildcat]

Hey guys,

Went around to my mates place the other night with my PACT scales and dispenser to do some reloading. He phoned me to say that he had just purchased a Lyman 1200 DPS III.

So, I was very interested to see the speed difference between the two. I have an older PACT so I was not holding out any hope that it would be as fast.

Set the 2 systems up next to each other. As I was about to commence loading with Vitavohuri N550, we decided to use that powder in the test. Total weight of powder to be measured out was 70 grains.

Decided to run the test 3 times for each. The PACT recorded 40 , 45 and 47 seconds.

Then ran the DPS III. Recorded 20 , 20 & 20 seconds.

As far as accuracy goes, after loading 70grains of powder on the DPS III, I then weighed this powder on my PACT scales. Read exactly 70 grains. Likewise I re weighed the 70grain powder charge from my PACT on the DPS III. Got the exact same 70grain reading.

I found the DPS III very much to my liking. Features I liked were the auto dispense function where as soon as you put the empty powder pan on the load cell it dispenses automatically. Emptying powder out of the unit is much improved, infact I wouldn't even bother to remove the bottom of the powder hopper as its funnel shape means all the powder with the exception of a few grains is emptied out. Those few grains are easily removed with the included brush.

I am still happy with my PACT, I do like the fact that the scales are seperate, but I would definately buy a 1200 DPS III.

Regards,

Michael.