Does A Can or Suppresor Increase Back Pressure and Decrease Velocity??? Well????

[WildRose]

You didn't actually address a single point I had raised? Also like most people on this forum I have been hunting, reloading and building rifles for decades. The expert hunters I have spent my time with were never the best range shooters, but they never failed to bring home game. There's a myriad of factors involved with hunting animals humanly at longer ranges and where say a rifle that's shooting 1/4 MOA consistently probably isn't the #1 criteria.

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Actually I did.

Most 'hunters' use off the shelf components and watch their costs.

We're not "most hunters" just as I said. We're the guys who put everything we have into being able to make those clean quick kills at ranges "most hunters" never even dream of.

Long Range Hunters, particularly those who are successful make up less than 1% of the hunters in the US.

 

[WildRose]

Seriously, on the shooting range they are not allowing brakes due to hearing safety? The one and only shooting range I ever been to would not allow you to enter without hearing protection and those were ear muffs only, if wearing hearing protection you should not be concerned about hearing loss with a brake. I shoot my 28 Nosler with a brake and foam ear buds, it doesn't hurt my ears even with those buds. I would think it would be the concussion from the brake is why they would not allow it, someone in the next booth could feel the concussion hitting them. I am just glad I do not have to worry about having to go to a shooting range.

I don't know of but one outdoor range that doesn't allow MB's but most indoor ranges do.

If you're the guy sitting directly behind the brake you're going to get the least amount of the blast and noise sent your way, it's the people on your right and left that suffer.

If I'm at a range where others are shooting I'll move as far away as possible or wait until there's an opening well away from the rest of the crowd because I know that particularly my big boomers are going to tear them up if I start shooting from the bench next to them.

Just a matter of understanding your equipment and being reasonably thoughtful and accommodating of the others sharing the range with you.

 

[WildRose]

Cutting Edge does makes solids, quite a few of them. Their ESP Safari Raptor line specifically comes with optional tips can be shot as solid, hollow point, or tipped. "Solids" as he used it isn't the correct term for mono. Not all the high BC target monos are solids (Berger's are), many have some form of a hollow point, not in the "initiating expansion" form but similar to the Sierra HPBT model with a minimized yet open meplat tip.


That "concussion" is sound that is so far above a hearing safe level that it can be damaging even wearing double ear pro. The shooter is protected by the baffle angle of the brake and sits in a pocket where sound levels aren't increased as much.

If it has a hollow point it's not a "Solid". The term solid has a very specific meaning in the hunting world, it's a round or blunt nosed cast lead, copper or brass bullet specifically designed not expand but to give maximum penetration.

In a field/sport where things are often extremely technical we need to get the terminology right or nobody has a clue what we're talking about.

 

[QuietTexan]

I'm not arguing with you! I'm trying to agree with yout! Monolithic and solid are two separate and distinct terms. This was the incorrect usage in the first place:

hunters don't use CNC machined solid projectiles is perhaps one example.

Firstly that's a factually inaccurate statement as solid bullets are commonly used for hunting, specifically dangerous game where penetration is paramount. He also introduced the term "solid" as an incorrect response to my statement of:

shift in bullet design towards monolithic copper bullets made on CNC lathes.

Ok I shouldn't have said monolithic, I should have said mono-metal, but the "mono" moniker is correct in both technical and idiomatic usage.

Mono bullets come in both solid and hollow point, and each are used in a variety of situations. Solids are used for both penetration and precision. Hollow points are used for hunting but also for precision. A mono bullet with a hollow point is not automatically a hunting bullet, match bullets are built the same was because an open meplat tip has aerodynamic benefits separate and apart from initiating expansion in the terminal ballistics phase.

Cutting Edge sells the ESP Raptor which is a hybrid solid mono - on one end it has a hollow point and an optional polymer tip that can be inserted. The "back end" so to speak of the bullet a meplat that matches the 'front end" but a solid nose and allows for the bullet to be turned around and fired as a solid. CE also sells a variety of truly and entirely, no options allowed solids, of which which the ESP is functionally identical to when loaded with the solid point forward.

 

[WildRose]

I'm not arguing with you! I'm trying to agree with yout! Monolithic and solid are two separate and distinct terms. This was the incorrect usage in the first place:

Firstly that's a factually inaccurate statement as solid bullets are commonly used for hunting, specifically dangerous game where penetration is paramount. He also introduced the term "solid" as an incorrect response to my statement of:



Monolitic bullets come in both solid and hollow point, and each are used in a variety of situations. Solids are used for both penetration and precision. Hollow points are used for hunting but also for precision. A monolithic bullet with a hollow point is not automatically a hunting bullet, match bullets are built the same was because an open meplat tip has aerodynamic benefits separate and apart from initiating expansion in the terminal ballistics phase.

Cutting Edge sells the ESP Raptor which is a hybrid solid mono - on one end it has a hollow point and an optional polymer tip that can be inserted. The "back end" so to speak of the bullet a meplat that matches the 'front end" but a solid nose and allows for the bullet to be turned around and fired as a solid. CE also sells a variety of truly and entirely, no options allowed solids, of which which the ESP is functionally identical to when loaded with the solid point forward.

No argument here either, we're just getting pretty technical so I'm going for clarity.

 

[QuietTexan]

Fair point Nitpicking over lexicon haha!

That ESP Raptor is a very interesting design, the insertable polymer tip is to my knowledge unique. Some monos come with tips, but I don't see them as optional elsewhere.

 

[WildRose]

Fair point Nitpicking over lexicon haha!

That ESP Raptor is a very interesting design, the insertable polymer tip is to my knowledge unique. Some monos come with tips, but I don't see them as optional elsewhere.

As far as I know there may be one other but I can't honestly remember who it was and that may no longer be the case.

The are doing some interesting work for sure and I welcome it.

The Perigrine tip is the most unique I've come across and they patented it. It does more than just keep the HP from plugging up and ensures consistent expansion in way no other tip I've seen does.

I actually recovered one from a hillside behind a WT doe I shot a few years back and even though it was a slow round at long range It still expanded to a very acceptable level. I also found the brass tip and after cleaning off both found it had mushroomed out to almost .50 and retained over 93% of it's weight with an impact velocity well under 1600FPs. That impressed me.

 

[QuietTexan]

Interesting, never seen those before. So basically a brass tip similar to but predating Hornady's use of the aluminum tip, maybe even pre-dates ALCO's use of steel/aluminum?

Wonder if Hornady's use of aluminum is because of the patent or because the A-Tip still retains a lead core so the weight impact on center of gravity was less regardless of tip material

 

[WildRose]

Interesting, never seen those before. So basically a brass tip similar to but predating Hornady's use of the aluminum tip, maybe even pre-dates ALCO's use of steel/aluminum?

Wonder if Hornady's use of aluminum is because of the patent or because the A-Tip still retains a lead core so the weight impact on center of gravity was less regardless of tip material

It's not just the material, it's the shape of the tip and the shape of the HP.

The tip has a long stem and there's a double recess with the seating stem going down into a second smaller shaft hole than the upper one that the tip itself plunges into.

The best way I can describe it is that it acts like shape charge but without expulsive being used, only rapidly compressed air.

Most ingenious thing I've seen done with a bullet in my lifetime to be real honest about it.

There's probably a physics nerd somewhere that can explain it better than I can but then I cried my way through Calculus and Physics 2.

I understand enough of it though to understand why we don't use copper for engine blocks and cylinders.

 

[Rocketeer77]

I'm not arguing with you! I'm trying to agree with yout! Monolithic and solid are two separate and distinct terms. This was the incorrect usage in the first place:

Firstly that's a factually inaccurate statement as solid bullets are commonly used for hunting, specifically dangerous game where penetration is paramount. He also introduced the term "solid" as an incorrect response to my statement of:


Ok I shouldn't have said monolithic, I should have said mono-metal, but the "mono" moniker is correct in both technical and idiomatic usage.

Mono bullets come in both solid and hollow point, and each are used in a variety of situations. Solids are used for both penetration and precision. Hollow points are used for hunting but also for precision. A mono bullet with a hollow point is not automatically a hunting bullet, match bullets are built the same was because an open meplat tip has aerodynamic benefits separate and apart from initiating expansion in the terminal ballistics phase.

Cutting Edge sells the ESP Raptor which is a hybrid solid mono - on one end it has a hollow point and an optional polymer tip that can be inserted. The "back end" so to speak of the bullet a meplat that matches the 'front end" but a solid nose and allows for the bullet to be turned around and fired as a solid. CE also sells a variety of truly and entirely, no options allowed solids, of which which the ESP is functionally identical to when loaded with the solid point forward.

For most of us hunting large dangerous game necessitating lager solids is well beyond our economic means. I do understand the usage of expandable mono metal projectile usage where lead is banned by the hippies. I was trying to keep the discussion around what 90% of us hunters would use for projectile usage. I still like old school projectiles like Nosler Partitions. As I said previously esoteric discussions about projectile science don't actually address the reality of shooting in the field over longer distances at game. To absolutely guarantee a humane kill shot, close enough doesn't cut it.

 

[Rocketeer77]

I don't know of but one outdoor range that doesn't allow MB's but most indoor ranges do.

If you're the guy sitting directly behind the brake you're going to get the least amount of the blast and noise sent your way, it's the people on your right and left that suffer.

If I'm at a range where others are shooting I'll move as far away as possible or wait until there's an opening well away from the rest of the crowd because I know that particularly my big boomers are going to tear them up if I start shooting from the bench next to them.

Just a matter of understanding your equipment and being reasonably thoughtful and accommodating of the others sharing the range with you.

We're seeing some ranges banning anything that's over 30 calibre where even my 9.3 x 62 isn't allowed on there. Our deer hunters range now bans muzzle brakes, but everyone seems to use suppressors nowadays and listening on a range you can see why.

 

[QuietTexan]

I still like old school projectiles like Nosler Partitions.

I like the Partition, used it as recently as last year. But I've changed over to almost exclusively using monos regardless of distance as of this year. Hammers gave me two instant DRT kills, I have those, Makers, and Barnes LRXs to load because Bergers disappeared for a very long time and I found out that monos really can be better. Hammer has gained a significant following here because terminal performance has been consistently excellent.

The Partition might be the only non-mono I'm actively planning to load becausein my current opinion there's no reason to use a cup and core bullet other than the core retention offered by Partition/A-Frame design.