Do it all short action with .532 bolt face?

[bigngreen]

IMO you can not build a 300 WSM and use a short action and have it perform at what it's capable of. I can't seem to not severely get into case capacity with anything less than a 3.2 with any real bullet, I will not shoot under a 200 gr 30 cal at an elk, been down that road way to many times.
The Tikka is a perfect WSM platform, far better than the REM or Savage since you can push the length.
The 7 SAUM is one I really have liked, 180 Berger at a 3.07 coal which will just tuck in Wyatt's longest box for a Rem and really the only thing that I've built that fits what your looking for.
If I had to shoot Hornady brass I'd quit shooting, the stuff sucks!

 

[Edd]

You can load a 180 gr Swift A-Frame at a 2.90" OAL and get 3000 fps from a 300 SAUM.

 

[wilkup]

This load data from Berger's site has me scratching my head...

http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/300-Winchester-Short-Magnum.pdf
This seems promising for a short action "kill everything" sort of rifle gun)

http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/30-Nosler.pdf
I would've thought the difference between the WSM and Nosler case would be bigger.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/300-Winchester-Magnum.pdf
I don't understand how the WSM case is beating this case...

Based on this information, I'm feeling the WSM wouldn't be any sort of slouch in the killing department.

 

[Plinker147]

+1 7 saum

 

[el matador]

Based on this information, I'm feeling the WSM wouldn't be any sort of slouch in the killing department.

Not surprising that the 300 WSM is so close to the 300 WM with 180 grain bullets. That is literally what the 300 WSM was designed to do - equal the 300 WM with 180 grain bullets, while using a short action and slightly shorter barrel. The WSM case is slightly more efficient which allows you to use a bit less powder and still reach those velocities. You will begin to see the 300 Winchester gain some ground when you go with a bullet larger than 180 grains, but the short mag still does pretty well with 200 grain bullets.

6.5 and 7mm cartridges will definitely kill elk and moose with good shot placement. They're just too light for consistent, quick kills in my experience. Talk to anyone that has killed a lot of elk (50+ animals) and I doubt any of them would recommend less than a stout .30 cal. Most of them would say to use a .338 if possible but .30s are not bad. Many hunting guides won't even allow guns smaller than .30 cal on their hunts. This is right in line with what I've witnessed on the handful of elk I've seen taken. They often run a good distance when shot with smaller calibers, even with good shot placement.

 

[wilkup]

Not surprising that the 300 WSM is so close to the 300 WM with 180 grain bullets. That is literally what the 300 WSM was designed to do - equal the 300 WM with 180 grain bullets, while using a short action and slightly shorter barrel. The WSM case is slightly more efficient which allows you to use a bit less powder and still reach those velocities. You will begin to see the 300 Winchester gain some ground when you go with a bullet larger than 180 grains, but the short mag still does pretty well with 200 grain bullets...

I guess I just wasn't expecting it to beat the WinMag, only equal it. That was the surprising part for me.

 

[HARPERC]

.......I guess I just wasn't expecting it to beat the WinMag, only equal it.......

It doesn't have to beat it, or equal it, just meet your intended needs.

The .308 Winchester, and 30-06 remain viable hunting rounds.

I'd still prefer the 6.5 in the package you describe, that doesn't make the .300 unusable. With bullets getting longer, magazine length can be ignored and single shot, but with 1.75" bullets out there some decisions need be made.

In many of the older manuals the .300 H&H had velocities that exceeded the Winchester, and Weatherby version. What is relevant is will your set up provide what you need, not what is most.

 

[wilkup]

It doesn't have to beat it, or equal it, just meet your intended needs.... What is relevant is will your set up provide what you need, not what is most.

Most definitely. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[FEENIX]

Based on this information, I'm feeling the WSM wouldn't be any sort of slouch in the killing department.

I guess I just wasn't expecting it to beat the WinMag, only equal it. That was the surprising part for me.

I have three .300 WM and remains my go to chambering for antelope to elk size game up to 1K yards. I have my first .300 WSM a few years ago and have been very impressed with it; it propels the 215 Berger at 2750 FPS accurately out of a 24" ... and yes, it you run the numbers it's by no means a slouch.

It doesn't have to beat it, or equal it, just meet your intended needs.

Well said Sir, it don't get no simpler than that.

 

[AZShooter]

300 WSM with 215 Berger target hybrid. Don't worry about the OAL with that long bullet sitting deep in the case.

I built a load for a friend's 300 WSM Browning A-bolt with 2.8" magazine restriction and 230 berger target hybrids. Used RL-17 and got a very accurate load @ 2735 fps. I would think you could get a bit more velocity with the 215s and have a fantastic LR platform which would work on all game in NA as you suggested.

Your 300 WSM would not duplicate the velocities that Broz obtained with his 300 win mag but it would be close. You would get same performance at a slightly closer distance. See just what this bullet is capable in this link. I linked it several pages in where the documented killing begins.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/index12.html

just noticed that someone is asking for load data on the 300 WSM and the 215s here:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/300-wsm-w-215-berger-loads-184167/

 

[Edd]

I think loading a 215 or 230 gr Berger at an OAL of 2.8 inches creates an undesirable situation. You only have about 1/8" of the neck contacting the bullets bearing surface. But it is the back part of the case neck that is making contact. You have pushed the bearing surface down inside the case neck so far the front half of the case neck is not contacting the bullet. The bullet has to jump .175" before it even gets to the chamber throat. Then it has to go another .200" before it makes contact with the lands.

 

[bigngreen]

I think you need to narrow up your criteria, what range and type of hunting, how big of bears are you talking in North America? How much recoil will you take, willing to run braked?

All of the 300 WSM's I've seen with just under a 3 inch coal with a 215 hybrid landed on an accuracy node in the mid 2800's using temp stable powders. Push the COAL and some Bertram brass and then you can reach the nodes the Win mag will reach.

I just don't like the 30 cal 180's on elk, I've killed probably close to a dozen elk that were wounded from that combo, two were a 300 WSM running 180 Accubonds hard and they did not penetrate the shoulder and enter the chest so I don't consider a 180 gr bullet of any make an all round bullet in a 30 cal.
I'll put 180's all day long in a 7mm cal case and run them like a 200+ gr in the 30 with far less recoil price which for over all shooting is important, getting back on target.
I've killed well over 50 elk and know many guys who have, the vast majority over the years have gone back down in cal, far more shoot 6.5's and 270's than 300's, for me the 30+ cals shine at longer range with heavy for cal. I've flat rolled more elk with my little 6.5 SS because it's not braked and I'm on target fast and stay on it BUT it not what I'm going after all NA game with but over all a 6.5 SAUM with a 140 Berger or 150 Matrix is excellent, a 270 WSM with a 170 is very good and fits nice in the extended box, 7 SAUM with a 180, a 300 WSM with 200+gr as long as you can, these are what I've seen work very, very well on elk using temp stable powders.

 

[elkaholic]

I have killed around 30 elk total, and 25 of them bulls. All but 4 were killed with a 6.5! With the proper bullet and enough mv to get it moving, the 6.5 will take care of elk to 1000 yards. In fact, we dumped a moose at 900 with one shot with a 150 Matrix last fall. Almost everyone can shoot a smaller bore more accurately with consistency. The 7's, 30's and 338's are all just fine but don't count out the 6.5 because you think it is too small! I will add that you being a "velocity guy", are leaving a lot on the table with a 2.90 coal in any of the std. cartridges. Also, if you try to run velocities (pressures) like you did with the SS, you will get 1 firing on your brass and then will be using shotgun primers.......Rich

 

[wilkup]

I have killed around 30 elk total, and 25 of them bulls. All but 4 were killed with a 6.5! With the proper bullet and enough mv to get it moving, the 6.5 will take care of elk to 1000 yards. In fact, we dumped a moose at 900 with one shot with a 150 Matrix last fall. Almost everyone can shoot a smaller bore more accurately with consistency. The 7's, 30's and 338's are all just fine but don't count out the 6.5 because you think it is too small! I will add that you being a "velocity guy", are leaving a lot on the table with a 2.90 coal in any of the std. cartridges. Also, if you try to run velocities (pressures) like you did with the SS, you will get 1 firing on your brass and then will be using shotgun primers.......Rich

I finally realized I can't have my cake and eat it too. I decided a 22-250 was needed. I won't be hotrodding my rifles anymore. I like having two eyes and all my fingers. lightbulb

I know the .308 caliber is not too much larger than a .264, but like the idea of additional tissue displacement from the larger diameter, more so for bears than elk or big deer.