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Dirty bore

VinceMule said:
That carbon in the barrel is not going to come out easy, and it will take some serious effort.

New bronze bristle brushes are your first line of attack. 60 cycles on a brush, then save it for use later on. Inspect the barrel. Put on a new brush and go at it again with 60 cycles on the brush. Inspect.

Now, if you still have carbon, JB on tight patches using a punch type of jag. Short stroke the patches in the problem areas. I use 5 JB soaked patches. I have had to resort to using the JB on a Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush. When the plastic brush gets some wear in it, you can completely load the brush with JB, then scrub back and forth in the carbon build up areas.

If the JB does not work on the plastic brush, Wind some FINE BRONZE wool in the brush, and load the brush with JB, 20 cycles with the brush, wash out barrel and inspect.

If the bronze wool in the brush does not work, then screw on one of the used Bronze bristle brushes and load it with JB and give it 20 Cycles, then inspect.
Click to expand...
This was one of the methods used in the past. Technology has changed this and yes there are some of the old guys (even young ones) that still are using old, outdated cleaning methods. I have been using this for a few months now and with everything verified by my bore scope, doubt I will ever use my IOSSO paste again! It is unlike anything I have ever used before.

 
There is much to be learned from the Video that BOSS has posted. Speedy is demonstrating typical cleaning methods that benchrest shooters use. It is worth noting that most other shooting disciplines would be well ahead of their competition if they were to copy Speedy's techniques.

For those that are willing to learn from Speedy's process, the issue of the Rod guide is a HUGE issue. The very best Rod Guides will have a bushing that centers the rod in the barrel. Centering the rod in the barrel keeps the rod from wearing the lands. Bore guides do not wear out, you will pass them down to your grandkids, get a good one. I use Lucas and Neil Jones.

Speedy and Eric's comments

Speedy's cleaning techniques are what would be minimal for other Shooting Disciplines Like F class, PRS, or Long Range shooting. If you see a cleaning product, I have it. I am always looking for a better mouse trap. I also have a Hawk Eye bore scope and Two Teslong bore scopes, one of which never leaves the cleaning station.

Speedy's comments that if a barrel fouls badly, they pull it off and put on another Barrel. We do not have this kind of disposable income to throw away $700-$800 barrels. Some of the cut rifle barrels are not smooth, one brand in particular that I have found. I prefer Brux and Krieger cut rifle barrels, but also shoot a number of Button rifle barrels also.

There are very different techniques needed for cleaning benchrest rifles with 8-15 rounds on it, vs a 7 Mag with 20 rounds on it. Those Patch Out products are like using Kool-Aid in a gun barrel when you have enough carbon from cases from 22/250 AI to 28 Nosler.

Speedy's comment on some shooters cleaning frequency, waiting till the barrel stops shooting. If you wait to clean till the accuracy falls off, the fouling is so hard it is difficult to impossible to clean, various abrasives will need to be used.

I buy the best bronze bristles brushes, six dozen at a time, Dewey and Pro Shot. I save the brushes at 60 strokes, the "used" brushes are then used for more severe applications of some kind of abrasive on the very worst fouled barrels.

Iosso and Montana extreme are the stiffest plastic brushes made, but the Dewey softer plastic brush can be used, by loading it up with Iosso, Jb, Montana Extreme Copper Cream, or Flitz bore cleaner to scrub out the very badly carbon-fouled barrels.

It is noteworthy that Speedy culls barrel that foul badly or easily, and for this reason, he cleans with patches only, and bench rest shooter clean every 8-15 shots where soaking and patch use only will work, but you need to follow up with some JB every 100-250 rounds to get residual carbon out of your barrel...bore scope tells all. It would be interesting to know whose barrels he uses.

I have every product that Bore tec and Wipe out make, and I would suggest that you do a search on "Ed's Red" bore solvent that you make at home as it is very effective and will save you a ton of money. Pursuing the idea of using a non stinking bore cleaning solvent has people throwing away their ability to remain open-minded about various results and too quickly calling "Good Enough" to the process.

Keith Glascock in these Video's dealing with hard carbon is really down to earth and very realistic with documentation, right in your face of the barrel issues and attempts to remove the hard carbon...not much left to the imagination in Keith's presentation. I would have to assume that Speedy would have culled Keith's barrel due to fouling, but there is no way to know. No doubt that it would be an interesting interview to have Speedy and Keith discuss the issues on this and other similar barrels.



Keith's entire video series evolves over time on carbon removal as he shares his learning process, sharing conclusions associated with bore scope presentation.

Speedy/Eric presentation would be best presented as Part 1, while Winning in the Wind's series should be considered Part 2.

I have my own rifle range, shoot from a heated/AC house, and reload on the spot. Being retired, Rain, Snow, snowing or sunshine, I shoot a lot in calibers from 223 AI, 6PPC to 7 STW. We used to go p. dog hunting with a 5-gallon bucket of neck-turned loaded rounds for each gun, and 8000 rounds through my rifles on a trip was the norm, and with good weather, 12,000 rounds centerfire on a two-week trip. I started using a bore scope 1988, which was a medical device.

From Boss' and my discussion on bore cleaning, we both know that bore cleaning by most shooters is minimal at best. If you purchase a Teslong bore scope, you can become your own expert. Then you will see firsthand your own cleaning results. The first thing that you learn is that clean patches do not mean a clean bore. Second thing you learn is that a lot of these soaking solvents is nothing but Snake Oil, and I have everyone that has ever been made having done real world tests for the shooting that I do.

Over time, you will see more and more shooters recording posting videos like Winning In The Wind posts. These Videos from average shooters are going to bring much to light, New Barrel Quality, quality of the chambering process, and fouling with it's related cleaning methods.

It is hard for me to get over Speedy's comments on if a barrel fouls quickly, screw it off and put on another one. This very thing is what we did when I was shooting benchrest as we sorted barrels for local matches, State, regional matches. In the long range hunting world, and prs world, who in the heck can sort barrels if they foul? For most guys, a barrel is a major investment, you have to learn to make the most of that barrel. Keith Glascock's Video, Winning in the Wind, will take the average guy to the next level in Gun Cleaning.

I am looking for my Long range hunting rifles to shoot 2" at 600 yards, 3.5" at the worst. My bench guns I am looking for groups in the zero's to high 1's, and if the barrel is shooting in the 2's, it is culled for a varmint barrel.
 
VinceMule said:
There is much to be learned from the Video that BOSS has posted. Speedy is demonstrating typical cleaning methods that benchrest shooters use. It is worth noting that most other shooting disciplines would be well ahead of their competition if they were to copy Speedy's techniques.

For those that are willing to learn from Speedy's process, the issue of the Rod guide is a HUGE issue. The very best Rod Guides will have a bushing that centers the rod in the barrel. Centering the rod in the barrel keeps the rod from wearing the lands. Bore guides do not wear out, you will pass them down to your grandkids, get a good one. I use Lucas and Neil Jones.

Speedy and Eric's comments

Speedy's cleaning techniques are what would be minimal for other Shooting Disciplines Like F class, PRS, or Long Range shooting. If you see a cleaning product, I have it. I am always looking for a better mouse trap. I also have a Hawk Eye bore scope and Two Teslong bore scopes, one of which never leaves the cleaning station.

Speedy's comments that if a barrel fouls badly, they pull it off and put on another Barrel. We do not have this kind of disposable income to throw away $700-$800 barrels. Some of the cut rifle barrels are not smooth, one brand in particular that I have found. I prefer Brux and Krieger cut rifle barrels, but also shoot a number of Button rifle barrels also.

There are very different techniques needed for cleaning benchrest rifles with 8-15 rounds on it, vs a 7 Mag with 20 rounds on it. Those Patch Out products are like using Kool-Aid in a gun barrel when you have enough carbon from cases from 22/250 AI to 28 Nosler.

Speedy's comment on some shooters cleaning frequency, waiting till the barrel stops shooting. If you wait to clean till the accuracy falls off, the fouling is so hard it is difficult to impossible to clean, various abrasives will need to be used.

I buy the best bronze bristles brushes, six dozen at a time, Dewey and Pro Shot. I save the brushes at 60 strokes, the "used" brushes are then used for more severe applications of some kind of abrasive on the very worst fouled barrels.

Iosso and Montana extreme are the stiffest plastic brushes made, but the Dewey softer plastic brush can be used, by loading it up with Iosso, Jb, Montana Extreme Copper Cream, or Flitz bore cleaner to scrub out the very badly carbon-fouled barrels.

It is noteworthy that Speedy culls barrel that foul badly or easily, and for this reason, he cleans with patches only, and bench rest shooter clean every 8-15 shots where soaking and patch use only will work, but you need to follow up with some JB every 100-250 rounds to get residual carbon out of your barrel...bore scope tells all. It would be interesting to know whose barrels he uses.

I have every product that Bore tec and Wipe out make, and I would suggest that you do a search on "Ed's Red" bore solvent that you make at home as it is very effective and will save you a ton of money. Pursuing the idea of using a non stinking bore cleaning solvent has people throwing away their ability to remain open-minded about various results and too quickly calling "Good Enough" to the process.

Keith Glascock in these Video's dealing with hard carbon is really down to earth and very realistic with documentation, right in your face of the barrel issues and attempts to remove the hard carbon...not much left to the imagination in Keith's presentation. I would have to assume that Speedy would have culled Keith's barrel due to fouling, but there is no way to know. No doubt that it would be an interesting interview to have Speedy and Keith discuss the issues on this and other similar barrels.



Keith's entire video series evolves over time on carbon removal as he shares his learning process, sharing conclusions associated with bore scope presentation.

Speedy/Eric presentation would be best presented as Part 1, while Winning in the Wind's series should be considered Part 2.

I have my own rifle range, shoot from a heated/AC house, and reload on the spot. Being retired, Rain, Snow, snowing or sunshine, I shoot a lot in calibers from 223 AI, 6PPC to 7 STW. We used to go p. dog hunting with a 5-gallon bucket of neck-turned loaded rounds for each gun, and 8000 rounds through my rifles on a trip was the norm, and with good weather, 12,000 rounds centerfire on a two-week trip. I started using a bore scope 1988, which was a medical device.

From Boss' and my discussion on bore cleaning, we both know that bore cleaning by most shooters is minimal at best. If you purchase a Teslong bore scope, you can become your own expert. Then you will see firsthand your own cleaning results. The first thing that you learn is that clean patches do not mean a clean bore. Second thing you learn is that a lot of these soaking solvents is nothing but Snake Oil, and I have everyone that has ever been made having done real world tests for the shooting that I do.

Over time, you will see more and more shooters recording posting videos like Winning In The Wind posts. These Videos from average shooters are going to bring much to light, New Barrel Quality, quality of the chambering process, and fouling with it's related cleaning methods.

It is hard for me to get over Speedy's comments on if a barrel fouls quickly, screw it off and put on another one. This very thing is what we did when I was shooting benchrest as we sorted barrels for local matches, State, regional matches. In the long range hunting world, and prs world, who in the heck can sort barrels if they foul? For most guys, a barrel is a major investment, you have to learn to make the most of that barrel. Keith Glascock's Video, Winning in the Wind, will take the average guy to the next level in Gun Cleaning.

I am looking for my Long range hunting rifles to shoot 2" at 600 yards, 3.5" at the worst. My bench guns I am looking for groups in the zero's to high 1's, and if the barrel is shooting in the 2's, it is culled for a varmint barrel.
Click to expand...

Just a FYI--Lucas is no more. Order them from PMA Tool... https://www.pmatool.com/ Things do change over time unfortunately. My 375 EnABELR bore guide got her last month and (used one of Speedy's extra ones for a couple of months) and it works just like the Lucas ones.
 
Patch out with accelerator did not do much for my hard carbon from firing 40-50 shots in my 308 with a number of different powders. I let it soak, then brushed, then soaked some more. I did get some exercise!
 
VinceMule said:
Patch out with accelerator did not do much for my hard carbon from firing 40-50 shots in my 308 with a number of different powders. I let it soak, then brushed, then soaked some more. I did get some exercise!
Click to expand...
Interesting --- I used about 5 drops of patch out and 3 drops of accelerator. Worked the throat area and also tried a nylon brush as well on my friends abused 204 with the product applied. One thing I do that Speedy does not is between applications of the product after patching out is I run a patch through after a squirt of CRC Brakleen to make sure all of the residue is gone. Then repeat the process. I buy the CRC stuff by the case....
 
I use CLR to knock out most of a carbon ring or badly fouled barrel.

Usually start with accelerator and wipeout, if I'm still getting carbon or if accuracy indicated a ring then I hit it with CLR, peroxide, alcohol, then back to wipeout. If there is still carbon I got to JB blue letters, and then back to wipeout.

When I JB it goes on a patch wrapped around a nylon brush on a section of rod in a drill. Run the drill working in and out. Ring doesn't last long.
 

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