defiance actions

[bretterath]

i know the hunter is only 4 oz heavier, I'm just trying to get my build where i want it.

timber 338, thats awesome that thing shoots that good.

Have any of you ever compared the game scout to the EH-1 to each other or shot them both and is there much of a difference or likes or dislikes.

 

[Nieko]

The Manners has a higher comb, the Game scout is one of my favorite stocks but with the scope you plan on using you will probably need a cheek piece of some sort to get your eye in the right position. The eh1 is a little bulkier but they look good with a proof barrel. Weights are about the same, about 2 oz heavier for the manners on the ones I have.

 

[jehu]

If you haven't bought your scope yet I would recomend the Nightforce ATACR Moar or Moar-t. I have 3 338 Lapua's all topped with ATACR's and they are awsome.

 

[bretterath]

The Manners has a higher comb, the Game scout is one of my favorite stocks but with the scope you plan on using you will probably need a cheek piece of some sort to get your eye in the right position. The eh1 is a little bulkier but they look good with a proof barrel. Weights are about the same, about 2 oz heavier for the manners on the ones I have.

i really like the looks of the game scout stock, i do have a skinny face so my cheek weld has always been an issue with stocks. I usually have a stock pack on which i don't like anymore and haven't put on cheek piece on any of my new rifles yet.

Jehu- i haven't bought a scope yet or have one yet so that would be an option i would check out also, thanks for the input.

 

[Timber338]

i know the hunter is only 4 oz heavier, I'm just trying to get my build where i want it.

I think it comes down to how you intend to use this rifle, and it kind of sounds like you have just about the same goal that I had when I built my 338.... a true long range hammer for hunting that is still light enough to carry all day. Those two goals kind of contradict each other so you've got to strike a balance.

A build like C.O. Shooter's is really going to maximize the capability of a big 338, that's why most guys build them a little heavier. Personally, that is just more weight than I care to lug around the mountains, so i sacrificed some range capability for less weight. But to the ranges I'm going to hunt, I've got supreme power and accuracy in a weight that is reasonable to backpack hunt with.

So I think you're on the right track with not wanting the extra 4 ounces with the hunter action ... that's a 1/4 pound! I really wouldn't worry about the flex in either action... I've never owned a defiance action, but from what I've read about them they are pretty much as good as it gets and they're all going to be accurate.

I think Bigngreen gave the best advice of the UL action limiting your scope position on top of the action. And along those same lines, the integrated scope rail forces picatinny scope rings which then limits how low you can mount a scope, which then drives the need for a bigger stock to get the comb up higher... each one of those components adds some ounces, and those ounces all add up to pounds.

I'm just splitting hairs to make the point that you need to be very picky if you have a weight goal in mind, I really think those defiance actions are engineering works of art... You just made the comment that you've had some previous builds that you were not completely happy with, so I'm throwing in the voice to keep things light weight and be confident that the rifle will still be plenty accurate.

Now some others can chime in to go heavier to keep your build in check. Nobody is wrong, just remember each choice comes with a tradeoff.

 

[bigngreen]

The #4 steel barrel will be lighter than the Proof barrel by a few ounces. If you building a Lapua make sure to get the large 1.250 shank and leave as much as you can, it'll be heavier but I've had a few of them in with nearly no shank and 1.2 and the Lapua at higher pressure are swelling the chamber so they are running slow to keep extraction good. When really trying to go light it becomes a very fine balance that you can really screw yourself with, I know of one company working on a Ti Lapua sized action that will let us put some barrel on and still come in at a nice weight.

 

[Timber338]

The #4 steel barrel will be lighter than the Proof barrel by a few ounces. If you building a Lapua make sure to get the large 1.250 shank and leave as much as you can, it'll be heavier but I've had a few of them in with nearly no shank and 1.2 and the Lapua at higher pressure are swelling the chamber so they are running slow to keep extraction good. When really trying to go light it becomes a very fine balance that you can really screw yourself with, I know of one company working on a Ti Lapua sized action that will let us put some barrel on and still come in at a nice weight.

This is exactly why I avoided the Lapua case... but I also sacrificed velocity. If I were building a Lapua I would pick Bigngreen's brain on all these details...

 

[bretterath]

yes timber338 your correct, I'm building a rifle i can carry all day in the mountains and can be extremely accurate. 1000 yards will be max probably closer to 800. Lots of people will say just go with the big 30 cal but i want a big bullet hitting very hard with lots of energy. I think if i need a higher comb i can always add the karsten cheek piece in. I want a 9lb 8oz rifle scoped is my goal. Im planning on going with the 338 norma. I know most will say go with the lapua but i won't need all that case capacity for my intentions i don't think.

I appreciate all your guys input and info. This some of the components and weights
Actions
-deviant hunter 33oz
-deviant ul 29oz
Stocks
-Htg edge fill 28oz
-game scout 24oz
-EH-1 28oz
Barrels
-proof carbon 26" 50oz or 3lbs 2oz
Muzzle brake
-terminator t3 4oz
Rings
-NF 30mm 3oz
Trigger
- ??
Bottom metal
-hinged floor plate ???
Kirsten cheek piece
-???

 

[bigngreen]

The Norma is excellent as well but it will suffer from extraction issues if you compromise the meat around the chambering since it's the same bolt thrust.
You need to trim more weight because you forgot bedding which is surprisingly heavy, you can loose a little on the recoil pad, there is a UL pad but I can't remember the web site. McMillian will not make an edge fill stock for a magnum chambering let alone a Lapua because in the Edge fill they totally use low density fill which won't hack the recoil so you'll have to sweet talk them into putting the high density fill in the front receiver and recoil lug area which will bring up weight but will keep it from cracking.
One issue I've ran into with trying to make an UL with a carbon barrel is they are huge so you have to use a thicker design to get the barrel in there without thinning out the forend so far you will have issues, I've had more luck with a small steel barrel getting the over all weight down because you can really shorten and trim down the stock.
I know there is one guy on here with your exact rig but he's running a much lighter optic and I believe the stock is lighter, search sp6x6, he has a lot of good info.

 

[bretterath]

how much will bedding add to the stock? 3oz max?
Thanks for the input again bigngreen.
I will see if sp6x6 chimes in.

 

[jrock]

I'm doing a 338 NM and went with the hunter action and A-3 sporter. I used a #6 barrel and the A-3 was the smallest fore end they would allow for that contour. They put the magnum fill in with no chance of the edge fill. Have to save weight another way there. I have a Zeiss HD5 5-25x50 scope and the whole rig should be under 10 lbs but I don't know what that would be exactly. I'm doing bottom metal with AISC mags so it will be a bit more than with a hinged floor plate.

 

[Timber338]

yes timber338 your correct, I'm building a rifle i can carry all day in the mountains and can be extremely accurate. 1000 yards will be max probably closer to 800. Lots of people will say just go with the big 30 cal but i want a big bullet hitting very hard with lots of energy.

Stocks
-Htg edge fill 28oz
-game scout 24oz
-EH-1 28oz

Yup, we are thinking the same ... we want it all... reasonable weight, tons of power and even more accuracy. My rifle will shoot accurately well beyond 1000 yards, but the stars would sure align to shoot at an animal beyond 1000.

A few comments on the game scout, mine has edge fill and weighs 28 ounces. I do hae an extra 5/8" in LOP which adds a bit, but even at the standard 13.5" LOP I don't think it will weigh 24oz. 26 sounds more reasonable.

And McMillan will not do edge fill above 300 win mag, but on a braked rifle they were fine doing edge fill with my 338 RUM. They just wrote down 300 win mag on the order form. So far I've got around 500 rounds down the barrel most all of those are with 300 grain bullets, and the stock has held up fine.

Jrock, I'm curious with how much your rifle weighs in at. I"ll be surprised if you are less than 11 lbs. I've got a 300 win mag on a Borden action w/ a #4 fluted barrel plus a Terminator T2 brake, McMillan A3 Edge fill stock (weighs 31 ounces) and a VX6 3-18x50 (20 ounces) mounted with Talley rings and she sits right at 9.5 lbs. Each of the components you mentioned are heavier by a good bit over what I've got.

 

[bretterath]

i will need to talk to manners and see if the elite stock in the EH-1 i will be able to do with the proof barrel. i suppose they ask what the cambering will be

 

[Timber338]

i will need to talk to manners and see if the elite stock in the EH-1 i will be able to do with the proof barrel. i suppose they ask what the cambering will be

I've asked manners about that before and they do not limit their stocks to any particular cartridge. Definitely worth a call, report back if they give you a different answer.