Custom rifle

[nksmfamjp]

1) what's the average 5 shot group of your custom hunting rifle
2) what are the worst 5 shot groups you see (with your tunes load)

With this years load, my average group determined by shooting 5 groups of 5 shots was about 0.75". This group was part of it….not bad. i cant remember it's worst group, but I'm thinking it was around 0.85".

What frustrated me was it also shot this with unformed brass.

On a side note I've found out that gunwerks guarantees a 7 shot group of .7" at 100 yards. I think that says a lot about what to expect from a lightweight premium hunting rifle and is probably a lot more in line with what most of these lightweight hunting rifles will do in normal conditions.

They ought to….or better. GAP guarantees 3/8 moa with factory ammo. That sounds even better.

I view accuracy guarantees with a skeptical eye. I think there are lots of ways out of them and fixing them is pretty cheap. To a higher end maker with their own action, etc, what do they really have if a full custom rifle? I pay Action - $1000; trigger - $250; bottom metal - $250; stock - $1000; barrel - $400; stuff - $500…..that is $3400 for full price parts. Let's say they do a great job and labor is about $1000. Then consider they knock 20% off the parts cost and probably the same by building similar rifles together. So $3500? Then the repair to the accuracy guarantee is to shoot the rifle in a rock solid rest and maybe rebarrel. So, a $10000 rifle can be rebarreled a lot before it doesn't make money. This is why I pay for and respect the work over the guarantees.

I'm starting to think the quarter minute hunting rifle is a unicorn. Not saying that they can't cut it from time to time. Ive shot several groups that were in the 1's and 2's but none of those guns I would consider quarter min rifles.

Maybe…or maybe it just doesn't matter. In the field, I struggle to make use of 1/4moa accuracy. Lots of other important variables.

Last question. At what point do you guys call it good and start shooting and not trying to develop the perfect load?

When the load is done or hits my target group & sd.

I don't shoot 5 shot groups and honestly see no point in it.

When was the last time you had five quick, consecutive shots on a game animal in the field?

Consistency of performance. I want to know all bullets go to the same place.

 

[wasskeet]

Most accurate "hunting" rifle I have had (so far?) was a McWhorter in 7 WSM. Consistently below .400" for 3 shots @ 100. From probably 25-30 3-shot groups, only ones over that were those I pulled one or when cleaning was needed. Never tried 5 shots as it was hot enough after 3. I expect it would do better with a better shooter. Is this great, average or sub-par for a custom? I have not owned/shot enough customs to know, but I was pretty impressed by it. Will it's replacement with a Gunwerks, etc do better? I do not know, but I will find out when I run across the right one.

 

[wasskeet]

They ought to….or better. GAP guarantees 3/8 moa with factory ammo. That sounds even better.

Attached are 3 photos with 3 different factory loads from 143gr to 95 gr in 6.5cm - GAP barreled rifle. The 140 Berger UM load shot on pretty windy day and I am not wind doper. Curious to see if I can load better than these once I get a chance to develop some handloads.

 

[Joefrazell]

There's a lot more 1/2MOA capable rifles than there are shooters, that's the problem.

I believe there's actually few of either. Here's the problem. Take a quarter min gun and a quarter min shooter and you have a consistent 1/2" combo. But if you have a 1/2 gun and 1/4 shooter your seeing 1/2-3/4. I've got a very accurate tikka ctr that my wife can put down a .5 moa group at 845 yrds on a calm day pretty regularly. Or better. And she doesn't shoot often but if I coach her through she can keep up with my groups usually. Maybe she's just special, I mean she really is!

 

[nksmfamjp]

Attached are 3 photos with 3 different factory loads from 143gr to 95 gr in 6.5cm - GAP barreled rifle.

I don't really doubt it, I'm just saying there is a cost to those guarantees and they are generally paid up front. No doubt GAP rifles shoot. Thank you for sharing.

 

[nksmfamjp]

This rifle has no guarantee….I thought it was crap.

Then I shot this

I found out I had a load problem!

 

[wasskeet]

I don't really doubt it, I'm just saying there is a cost to those guarantees and they are generally paid up front. No doubt GAP rifles shoot. Thank you for sharing.

I got this one from Unoboats - glad to get it!

 

[DJ Fergus]

Three shots groups is all that I shoot. Now I will do multiple 3 shot groups during load development but it's going to be several hours later or the next day. From my standpoint, 5 shot groups will tell you if your barrel is starting to bow as it heats up but doesn't necessarily mean your load work up is bad. When we run very hot burning powders like RL26, N570, and even retumbo which is less as hot burning than those two previous mentioned, you would need a very heavy contour barrel for it not to walk shots when going for 5 shots. Or it would have to be 100% perfectly stress relieved if it's a Sporter contour. Most folks won't run those powders for competitions with long shot strings. 1/2 moa & under is my goal for three shots. It's not always easily achieved but I normally run very hot burning powders and that's a contributor to a barrel heating fast. Sometimes I do much better than 1/2 moa. Most but not all who consistently shoot .1s and .2s are going the extra mile with sorting and maticulously prepping cases and some sort bullets. I do have a a couple that will shoot as said without this prep & sorting but I'm using very consistent bullets and brass along with cooler burning powders in those rifles.

 

[BenelliHunter]

I have always been blessed with the ability to shoot a rifle well. More because I was blessed than with any real practice or extraordinary effort. That being said- it is rare that I have found a factory rifle that will not shoot 1" groups. I have many factory rifles that shoot sub .5 inch groups and that includes several ruger Americans. If my customs don't shoot .3 or less they go away.
I think most rifles are capable of far more than most shooters.

 

[TxHeartShot]

Alright, everyone talks about how there custom rifle shoots .xxx groups all day long. I'm a realist and I've got a few custom rifles and I'd like some input from the guys on the forum that have more experience then I do. To add, we are talking hunting rifles under 12 lbs
Three questions

1) what's the average 5 shot group of your custom hunting rifle
2) what are the worst 5 shot groups you see (with your tunes load)

I'm just kinda at a point that I realize that all bullets will not be touching all the time regardless of any guarantee you see or what others have said. Im seeing that a realistic expectation is 5 shots around 1/2 moa. Some won't make it and some will be better.

On a side note I've found out that gunwerks guarantees a 7 shot group of .7" at 100 yards. I think that says a lot about what to expect from a lightweight premium hunting rifle and is probably a lot more in line with what most of these lightweight hunting rifles will do in normal conditions.

I'm starting to think the quarter minute hunting rifle is a unicorn. Not saying that they can't cut it from time to time. Ive shot several groups that were in the 1's and 2's but none of those guns I would consider quarter min rifles.

I'm the kind of guy that will chase my tail trying to get my rifle to consistently shoot sub half min and will never settle on a load and work on other shooting fundamentals besides groups. Trying to work through this haha.

Last question. At what point do you guys call it good and start shooting and not trying to develop the perfect load?

Since I don't reload I found a factory load that my rifles like.

My Hill Country Rifles 7mm STW (Win Model 70 action, Lilja bbl) shoots 160 gr Accubonds in .34 inch and 160 gr Partitions in .55 inch, both from Nosler custom ammo.

My MG Arms 260 Rem (700V action, Hart bbl) is a quarter minute rifle with 140 gr. Accubonds from Double Tap.

I'm not going to mess with anything...well, maybe I could shoot better, but it ain't the gun!

 

[CapeBuffalo]

Alright, everyone talks about how there custom rifle shoots .xxx groups all day long. I'm a realist and I've got a few custom rifles and I'd like some input from the guys on the forum that have more experience then I do. To add, we are talking hunting rifles under 12 lbs
Three questions

1) what's the average 5 shot group of your custom hunting rifle
2) what are the worst 5 shot groups you see (with your tunes load)

I'm just kinda at a point that I realize that all bullets will not be touching all the time regardless of any guarantee you see or what others have said. Im seeing that a realistic expectation is 5 shots around 1/2 moa. Some won't make it and some will be better.

On a side note I've found out that gunwerks guarantees a 7 shot group of .7" at 100 yards. I think that says a lot about what to expect from a lightweight premium hunting rifle and is probably a lot more in line with what most of these lightweight hunting rifles will do in normal conditions.

I'm starting to think the quarter minute hunting rifle is a unicorn. Not saying that they can't cut it from time to time. Ive shot several groups that were in the 1's and 2's but none of those guns I would consider quarter min rifles.

I'm the kind of guy that will chase my tail trying to get my rifle to consistently shoot sub half min and will never settle on a load and work on other shooting fundamentals besides groups. Trying to work through this haha.

Last question. At what point do you guys call it good and start shooting and not trying to develop the perfect load?

There's a whole lot more ½ rifles than there are ½" shooters.

 

[skipglo]

There's a lot more 1/2MOA capable rifles than there are shooters, that's the problem.

Amen to that! Otherwise everything we now read be even more unbearable because folks wouldn't be shooting Elk at 900 yards on a dead run with no lead, and gophers at 825 yards with a 30 mph crosswind anymore....that would just be boring..the new stories would be....Shooting the tick of the Moose's Butt at 1150 yards!

 

[JTComfort]

Groups at 100 do little to tell me anything, many times you don't see things really fall apart until 500 or 600 yards. All of the rifles I hunt with shot 1/4"-1/2" groups before I went to validation.

To me first round impacts mean more than tiny groups. I set steel from 300-945 yds and ideally I want to be able to hit within 1/2 moa of POA on the first round on a calm day.

If you think about it the 10 ring on an f class target is an MOA with the x being 1/2 moa and it is a pretty good accomplishment to clean a target with a 22lb rifle.

Agreed, I zero at an indoor 100yd range on a sturdy table and vise - all it verifies is that my "machine" is set right. Once we go outside, there's more "me" and atmosphere added in the solution.

Very interesting podcast from the guys at Gunwerks discussing wind. They dove deep into the influences in trajectory in the first 1/3 of travel to target and then influences in the last 1/3. . When as you said, "things fall apart at" at range, there's good info here.

 

[cjuve]

What I was referring to was not about the wind or conditions but load tuning. When you shoot groups at range you find out that there is a lot more to load development than that 1/2" 100 yd group.