Custom rifle cost going to the moon , when does it end ?

[TXAoudadKlr]

I have about 6k in my 300AX. 12k is absurd

 

[dflyfish]

Gunwerks makes it very easy to purchase a great quality rifle. I tried to supply the following components to 4 gunsmiths on this site and there was little to no interest. my goal was to have two identical rifles, just a small and large caliber. after more research, turns out a lot of gunsmiths make most of their money on the components and not the labor. i wish i had know that before buying:

2 AG alpine hunters inlet for DBM and sendero profile
2 proof carbon
2 TT Special
2 BO M5's
2 AP gen 3 little bas**ds

 

[AaronSkipDavidson]

I'm all about a couple guys getting together and building a successful company. It does seem there is more markup than I'd like. As an uninsured, non schooled gun tinkerer, I would have to charge $13k for a turnkey because the questions you get after the sale would take years off my life. "Why Is this shooting 3" high a 1000? I turned the thingy on the scope to "1000"."

Our run of the mill turn key rifles are more like $8k, the rifle that started this discussion is a full-on fancy build-out with engraving, special stock materials, metal finishes, $3500 Swarovski scope, etc.

A couple of years ago we released a component action for $800 bucks. It's nice! It pushed every other manufacturer of actions to respond, now there are dozens of options for a similar price point. Don't beat us up as overpriced hype. Some stuff is expensive, and some is more budget. We try hard to control the price, but sometimes we just want to build it to the 9s!

 

[JMW67]

Our run of the mill turn key rifles are more like $8k, the rifle that started this discussion is a full-on fancy build-out with engraving, special stock materials, metal finishes, $3500 Swarovski scope, etc.

A couple of years ago we released a component action for $800 bucks. It's nice! It pushed every other manufacturer of actions to respond, now there are dozens of options for a similar price point. Don't beat us up as overpriced hype. Some stuff is expensive, and some is more budget. We try hard to control the price, but sometimes we just want to build it to the 9s!

I get it a chevy will get you to town but the ride in a caddy is much cooler

 

[Ingwe]

For me it's a matter of money that I would rather spend on a hunt than on a rifle.

If I DID NOT have to factor in the money, I would definitely give Gunwerkz my $13,000 and tell them what I wanted and have them send my back a sighted rifle, ammo, and all the range dope for it.

 

[Radman]

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

Lile the story told by a buddy of mine who got into bass fishing several years ago: After buying a four-wheel drive to pull the new boat, motor and trailer, hauling all of the rods and reels and tackle that he had bought, (not counting fuel cost or insurance), he said he had it calculated that the fish he brought home only cost him $8 a fish over a 30-year span.....

 

[lgwatson]

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

That's out of my price range. I'm glad that some people can afford them. They create jobs and stimulate the economy.

 

[DNADave]

I've spent my entire career in R&D and one thing that everyone not in R&D forgets is the cost to create the product. If Gunwerkz is manufacturing their own actions and stocks, they had to hire (probably a few) people to not only run the equipment, but to also have enough knowledge in how to tweak it to get the desired results. These people are not as cheap to hire as the guy who just knows how to run the equipment. And, it takes time and many iterations to arrive at the final product. Generally, no one outside of the company ever sees the intermediate results, or knows how much effort it took to get there.

Also, it takes some more time and effort to make sure all of the components work together. One of my other hobbies is to bike to work (it's about the only exercise I get routinely). I've taken my stock Scott Sub-10 and over time upgraded almost every component on this bike. Simple things like making sure the front derailleur is compatible with the rear derailleur so that you can shift gears took some time to get right. You can't always adjust your way out of a bad combination and you only find that out by going through the motions sometimes. Your local smith probably has a set formula he knows works and the custom you get is from that set, or one of his sets, of formulas. A company like Gunwerkz that is manufacturing their own components had to do all of that R&D work themselves. There was no internet search that would provide the right solution for them, they had to do R&D to find it.

So, long post, but you're not only paying for high end components and custom load work, you're also paying for all of the research and development that went into creating a system that works and that they can provide a guarantee around.

My guess is that your local smith is discounting that cost as most independent owners do (to their own detriment).

 

[Tom Erickson]

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

I've seen some guns with engraving and wood work that was a more art then a gun.i bough a nice gun the most I ever spent on a gun. I was working 15 hrs over time week and had money to burn so I built the bullet .

 

[JMW67]

I've spent my entire career in R&D and one thing that everyone not in R&D forgets is the cost to create the product. If Gunwerkz is manufacturing their own actions and stocks, they had to hire (probably a few) people to not only run the equipment, but to also have enough knowledge in how to tweak it to get the desired results. These people are not as cheap to hire as the guy who just knows how to run the equipment. And, it takes time and many iterations to arrive at the final product. Generally, no one outside of the company ever sees the intermediate results, or knows how much effort it took to get there.

Also, it takes some more time and effort to make sure all of the components work together. One of my other hobbies is to bike to work (it's about the only exercise I get routinely). I've taken my stock Scott Sub-10 and over time upgraded almost every component on this bike. Simple things like making sure the front derailleur is compatible with the rear derailleur so that you can shift gears took some time to get right. You can't always adjust your way out of a bad combination and you only find that out by going through the motions sometimes. Your local smith probably has a set formula he knows works and the custom you get is from that set, or one of his sets, of formulas. A company like Gunwerkz that is manufacturing their own components had to do all of that R&D work themselves. There was no internet search that would provide the right solution for them, they had to do R&D to find it.

So, long post, but you're not only paying for high end components and custom load work, you're also paying for all of the research and development that went into creating a system that works and that they can provide a guarantee around.

My guess is that your local smith is discounting that cost as most independent owners do (to their own detriment).

I figure RD goes into each every component no matter were it comes from so that cost should be across the board

 

[Westernhuntr]

That's a very

Our run of the mill turn key rifles are more like $8k, the rifle that started this discussion is a full-on fancy build-out with engraving, special stock materials, metal finishes, $3500 Swarovski scope, etc.

A couple of years ago we released a component action for $800 bucks. It's nice! It pushed every other manufacturer of actions to respond, now there are dozens of options for a similar price point. Don't beat us up as overpriced hype. Some stuff is expensive, and some is more budget. We try hard to control the price, but sometimes we just want to build it to the 9s!

That's a very fair point.
You guys do offer some very high quality affordable options.
It's more so that LR shooting is becoming a new craze, and guys with big money and no experience are allowing prices in general to become obscene from what they were say 5 years ago.

 

[Warbird2006]

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

I hire you, but this market is not for you and I. If you own a big company, or running a business, without time for playing with guns and always sudden you decide to pay $50,000 to go elk hunting in Alaska. Then 12.5K is nothing for you. If I didn't spend $ on my toys and reloading I could afford 12.5k rifle. haha, but probably never buy one.

 

[milo-2]

Gunwerks makes it very easy to purchase a great quality rifle. I tried to supply the following components to 4 gunsmiths on this site and there was little to no interest. my goal was to have two identical rifles, just a small and large caliber. after more research, turns out a lot of gunsmiths make most of their money on the components and not the labor. i wish i had know that before buying:

2 AG alpine hunters inlet for DBM and sendero profile
2 proof carbon
2 TT Special
2 BO M5's
2 AP gen 3 little bas**ds

Call Longrifles Inc in Sturgis SD, [HIDDEN].
Not only will they take your parts, probably have a turn around time of 3 weeks or so

 

[DNADave]

I figure RD goes into each every component no matter were it comes from so that cost should be across the board

In some ways. Suppose you buy a Defiance action. You are paying for the R&D effort put into creating and building that action, but the cost is amortized over the many thousands of actions they have sold over time. I am guessing that Gunwerkz sales for rifles are much less than Defiance has for their actions given the number of builders using them. This means Gunwerkz has to charge more per item to recoup their R&D costs. At some point, R&D costs have been covered and the costs go down.

Now as for the smiths, I'm as guilty as they are when I do custom consulting. I have over 20 years of very specialized experience in data analysis and when I quote how much I would charge for a project, I rarely take into account any premium I should charge for the experience I have in knowing what is the right way to analyze this data and in my interpretation of the results. I just charge for the time, which due to my experience may, and usually is, less time than someone with less experience. Even though my hourly rate is higher, it still isn't enough to really take into account the experience my customer is getting essentially for free. I imagine most smiths are similar. A company like Gunwerkz can't do that as not charging for that experience means not paying an employee's salary.