converting a bolt face.

[Deleted member 46119]

McGowan will make you a "prefit" for the Vanguard action, 30", Octagon (I'm pretty sure you were kidding but I still think it would be cool), pre-chambered for 338 Edge, 338 Edge Match, 338 RUM, 338 WM which you can then run my reamer into and have 338/36-Nosler or no chamber.

Cheap at $637.50

Octagon barrel on a long range rifle. How cool would that be.....

 

[shortgrass]

McGowan will make you a "prefit" for the Vanguard action, 30", Octagon (I'm pretty sure you were kidding but I still think it would be cool), pre-chambered for 338 Edge, 338 Edge Match, 338 RUM, 338 WM which you can then run my reamer into and have 338/36-Nosler or no chamber.

Cheap at $637.50

Octagon barrel on a long range rifle. How cool would that be.....

Polygonal (rifling), not octagon shaped on the outside,

 

[sam4485]

Yes, I meant Polygonal rifling. I can buy a pre-fit, polygonal barrel from Pac-Nor. Now I'm back to choosing an action. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of the Montana 1999 action. I understand it is an improved version of the pre 64 model 70. I have an opportunity to obtain one of their "Professional Hunter" lm action with a 416 Rigby bolt set up for a very good price (brand new).

 

[Hired Gun]

I wouldn't recommend a Montana or any rifle just for the action on a Lapua build. Do a bit of research on the 1999. Success with that action appears to be hit or miss whether they are even usable. If it has to start with a factory action the only factory action I like to use for a Lapua would be a Weatherby Mark 5. Preferably starting with a 378 sized bolt. A .257 through 340 can be converted easy enough if that's all you can find.

None of them are as nice as the wide variety of dedicated custom actions available or soon to be released Curtis Custom action. Some of the custom actions can be had with a .750" diameter bolt and M-16 extractor as standard.

If you shop a bit you can find a proven/preowned custom rifle built on a custom action ready to go for about the same price as what you are going to spend on the same parts. Lapua's shine in a 30" barrel. With that much barrel I really like single shots for the massive increase in strength a single shot offers. We see 1" groups at 500 yards with heavy single shots where the lighter repeaters have a hard time doing that.

I don't understand the interest in prefit barrels. If you are determined to go that way, think Savage.

This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. It's just what came into my head at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Polygonal (rifling), not octagon shaped on the outside,

It was getting kinda late.

Still interesting.

Pac-Nor will make you a very fine barrel. I mostly use 3L barrels from them.

 

[sam4485]

jfseaman; There was an article in the current issue of Arms and Ammo on the "Nosler 33" cartridge. If I understand it correctly the new cartridge has comparable ballistics to the 338 Lapua but will fit in the standard magnum action with the regular (.53) magnum bolt face. I currently have a Model 700 in 300 win mag. I can use that action, changing out the barrel to 338 and chambering it to the new cartridge. Am I correct?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

jfseaman; There was an article in the current issue of Arms and Ammo on the "Nosler 33" cartridge. If I understand it correctly the new cartridge has comparable ballistics to the 338 Lapua but will fit in the standard magnum action with the regular (.53) magnum bolt face. I currently have a Model 700 in 300 win mag. I can use that action, changing out the barrel to 338 and chambering it to the new cartridge. Am I correct?

Yes and no.

Yes, you can change the barrel on your Vangaurd 300 Wby or R700 300WM to 338 chambered in 33 Nosler. Either action will be great. Since Pac-Nor will make a "pre-fit" for the Vanguard easy peasy. The Vanguard should just run. Not 100% sure whether the R700 would need feed lip adjustments.

No, the 33 Nosler does not really match the 338LM. This can get complicated. Bullet weight, pressures of load, barrel length. For bullet weights under 250grains, the 33 Nosler has an efficiency advantage but not really a performance advantage. Bullets 250grains and up, it all falls on the 338 Lapua Magnum.

I'm really excited that Hammer Bullets has thrown down on a 236 grain 338 bullet.

On a 33 Nosler or in my case a 338/26-Nosler that 236 sounds fantastic. I wish I had the specs. I'll have to wait. I not good at that part, waiting.

 

[sam4485]

Hired Gun

I didn't have a specific interest in a pre-fit barrel. It was suggested by another post and I found it interesting. After being educated by a lot of really interesting responses I have decided against the 338 Lapua. There are other chambering that will have similar ballistics without the need for the 416 Rigby size action. I have an interest in the new 33 Nosler but the brass load history are a concern. I think that the 338 Edge (338/300UM) seems to be the best bang for the buck. Brass is easy to obtain at a reasonable price and it will fit a 375 H&H size action plus I can use the VG action that I already have without any major modifications. Your comments on the 300 grain projectile versus a 250 grain are both interesting and accurate. I still want to go with a polygonal (rifling) barrel. I think a 30" barrel (if Pac-Nor makes a 30" polygonal) would be a good length with the 108 grain cartridge powder capacity. Anyone have a thought or comment? I really appreciate all the great information from everyone. I have been away from active shooting since the early 90s and loads, powders and chambering choices has changed a great deal in that time. Now I have to research available stocks and muzzle brakes.

 

[sam4485]

I think that I have this planned out now. I decided to trade for a different receiver from the Vanguard. After some thought on the info you guys gave me, I decided to go with the 338 Edge Let me know what you think

Remington 700 LA ultra mag
Bottom metal from Pacific tool
Pac-Nor Barrel, 30" stainless steel with polygonal rifling Medium Palma profile
Richards Micro Fit composite stock, thumb hole with finger grip, Monte Carlo cheek piece and 1" decelerator butt pad.
Haven't decided on the scope or break. Maybe you all could make a suggestion,

 

[Deleted member 46119]

big thumbs up.

 

[Hired Gun]

Very good Sam, I'm glad we all were able to help guide you to building the most potent long range rifle for your money. I have no experience with the polygonal rifling other than it works fine in my Glock pistols. I agree on using a 30" barrel to get the most out of these larger cases. The Edge is a good as it get's and super capable with the 300 grain bullets.

I have one more point of consideration I would like you to really think about. That is the decision to use a model 700 verses a Stiller Tac 300 action ($975) or if available the new Curtis Custom action named the Axiom. It's slated to be only $750 which is an incredible value. Even at $975 every time I run the numbers for me it favors using the custom action. Even if the 700 is free I still favor the custom. The Vanguard action has many of the features of a tricked out Remington except for the availability of a really quality trigger and that is a deal breaker for me. None of the actions come with a trigger so figure on $225-$250 for a Jewel trigger. Then the only thing we haven't discussed is the Weatherby Mark 5. Like the customs it comes pretty much ready to go out of the box except it comes with a trigger that rivals the Jewel trigger. Hopefully at the end of the day the Axiom action will be available for your timeline. For quality, pride of ownership, budget and resale value it is the clear winner. I know up front the 700 looks like a bargain but I believe once you pan it out it will not be a bargain at all.

 

[sam4485]

Hired Gun, Thanks for the input. I have also looked at Defiance Machine, BAT and Surgeon. Outside of the 700 the Stiller Axiom seems to be the most cost effective. The difference in price between the Stiller (with Jewel trigger) and the 700 (which comes with an adjustable trigger) is about $500.00. I will still consider it but there is a substantial cost difference and the 700 action highly regarded. The difference in cost for the bottom metal is negligible. I learned about paragonal rifling many years ago. It was invented by the Germans during WWII for use on their sniper rifles. The Germans and the Israelis' both use it today as well as several other European military. The rifling is not normal lands and grooves. This allows a tighter seal in the barrel and less chance of any malformation or striations caused by the rifling. They claim better accuracy and 100 to 200 FPS increase in velocity. During my career as an engineer I worked on many projects over seas (for an American company). I lived in Russia from 1998 to 2003 and knew several Russian officers. Even they were experimenting with the paragonal barrel with the 338 Lapua cartridge. The process of making the barrel was very interesting to me. It is cold hammer forged around a mandrel then quenched. The quench is a very important step in the process. It determines the stress relief (from the forging) and the trueness of the barrel. Metallurgy it is was far ahead of it's time when it was invented. Sorry to chew your ear off. You probably know all about it.

 

[Hired Gun]

To get close to the performance of the custom action don't forget to include the following.
Truing: $250
M-16 Extractor: $125
Tactical bolt handle: $50 for just a knob-$100 for straight handle
Pic rail: 45-130
.250 Hardened lug pinned to action: $50

After all that, the bolt to action fit is sloppy to the tune of .006"-.009" slop. This causes the bolt to rest on one lug until it is fired and the bolt snaps to rest on the lugs causing a vibration to be sent the length of the rifle much like a diving board. An oversized PTG bolt will cure this as will bushing the bolt. Both of which add even more cost making the custom action a bargain from every angle. A 700 repeater is flimsy foundation. Look at the lack of mass between the feed port and ejection port. There is near nothing there. The lower lug has very little support. Any leaked gas is steered down the firing pin right directly to your face. The only thing they really have going for them is the simple design.

For myself, the factory action I prefer most, for a personal build on a budget would be a Weatherby Mark 5 action.

 

[sam4485]

Hired Gun, Thanks for the information. You made excellent points. I will rethink my plan to use the model 700. I have to rethink the alternatives.